Messages in ICG #boardofdirectors (Slack)           <2019-11-30  2019-12-02>



Mera Rose  6:19 AM
Don’t forget to fill out the 2019 ICG Survey of Members!  The survey results up to 11:59pm EST 12/1/2019 will be published (without names, in random order) tomorrow on the Slack channel #2019survey.  Please click the link below to make your opinion know on many of the motions and discussions that are currently occurring in committees and Board of Directors.


Jeanine Swick  11:22 AM

Speaking as the ICG Treasurer here hoping to make a clearer understanding about the potential financial impact the voting on Motion 11-06-2019-1A1 could have.A


YES vote means we MUST RESEARCH the costs of hiring a lawyer to write policies we could probably get for free and decide if we want to spend the money.


A NO vote means we MUST HIRE a lawyer to write policies we could probably get for free regardless of cost or whether it could bankrupt the corporation.


Mera Rose  11:25 AM
Cross posted to Yahoo:
Or, a no vote could mean that we want to simply vote down the proposal entirely in favor of using Maryland Nonprofits services for $100/year and ensure that we’re using a nonprofit attorney in the state of Maryland for the lowest cost. (That’s why I voted no, lol.)


Mera Babineaux


[1 reply Last reply 2019-12-01 11:31 AM]


Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
Yeah $100 a year is hardly going to bankrupt the ICG. However, not getting important documents and/or allowing there to be problems of harassment/discrimination?


That’s a whole other problem.


Merrily  11:39 AM
Wouldn’t the MD non profit be a quote for their services for the listed items. A no vote would mean we have to hire a lawyer instead of their services. At least that is how I’m reading the motion.


[1 reply Last reply 2019-12-01 12:33 PM]


Mera Rose  2 years ago
Actually, Maryland Nonprofit offers a lot of services to their members for the $100 membership fee including consulting on policies and things like this.  It’s a lot better use of funds to just go through them than to pay our retainers and billable hours to a Maryland attorney, IMHO.  It would be good to have the motion withdrawn or voted down so that a policy committee could be put together and put the policies together to have Maryland Nonprofits review and offer changes to.


Dragan Rose  11:47 AM

Could we get some clarification on Motion 11-06-2019 1A1? Does a "No" vote require us to hire a lawyer? Not what it could mean, what is DOES mean. I want to understand exactly what the outcome of each of the votes are.


[2 replies Last reply 2019-12-01 12:56 PM]


Mera Rose  2 years ago
No on this puts the language back to 1A.  Honestly, if you don’t want any of it, voting no as each amendment and the original come up would do that.  If you want to change the language to investigate hiring attorneys and not make any decisions on that until the annual meeting, then vote yes on 1A1.  If you want to hire an attorney to draft the language then vote yes on 1A and no on 1A1.  If you want to do something else, you can actually move to amend after this amendment is voted on too.


Dragan Rose  2 years ago

Okay, thanks.


Judy Mitchell  11:49 AM

A No vote, if the amendment is defeated, means we return to the original motion where the language does require us to hire a lawyer.


[1 reply Last reply 2019-12-01 12:36 PM]


Mera Rose  2 years ago
See my response to Sarah


Betsy R. Marks  11:52 AM

If by some chance we defeat this amendment, it's possible we will obligate the ICG to HIRE a lawyer.


This is an amendment to the original motion. If we don't change the language of the original motion, and that motion passes, we're required to hire.Are you sure you want to risk what could easily become an expense of tens of thousands of dollars?


Good lawyers in Maryland are $400/hour or more. That seems like playing roulette with the ICG's finances. It took us years to build the balance we have now. Seems like a shame to see it all spent in one place, for lawyers' fees.


But if we'd rather spend our money on the legal profession instead of supporting our art and artists, I guess that's what we'll have to do.


I intend to vote yes on the amendment, on the off chance there aren't enough votes to defeat the motion as a whole.




Betsy R. Marks 
Silicon Web--
Betsy R. Marks


Mera Rose  12:01 PM
If this language fails, then it defaults to 1A, if that language fails, then it defaults to 1.


Mera Rose  12:26 PM
And honestly, I don’t see why there is an insistence that we hire an attorney to do it.  I mean, there’s tons of draft templates out there that are cheap or free that we could create a committee to finalize, and then send them to Paddy Morton with Maryland Nonprofits to make sure that we’re 100% compliant.  A lot cheaper, a lot faster, and gets the whole thing done.


I mean, let’s just be realistic here.  Pushing out the dates into infinity to “investigate” it just looks like avoidance behavior, and saying that spending $100 on Maryland Nonprofits and either using their templates or resources and attorney or $100 for legal zoom or some other template service (assuming that any of the legal professionals here don’t have templates already that we could use) is going to bankrupt the ICG is obviously not the case.  Hiring a Maryland attorney at an hourly rate would be a horrible misuse of funds with these two options available, IMHO.


And - while I understand that several of you may not think that this is important, our members don’t agree.  Preliminary graphs from the survey below (these may change as the survey isn’t closed yet, but it gives an idea of the trend right now. And the last one is just to remind everyone on all sides of this issue that tone is important.)


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Jacalyn Boggs  12:26 PM
Fear tactics when 1. This is something so simple and fast I literally had a lawyer do it for me already at no cost so no, it won’t bankrupt us and 2. We have the simple option of Maryland Nonprofits for a whopping $100? 


This is a bit ridiculous. I’m literally just waiting for us to be signed on with them at this point so I can contact them about several things. Including this specific motion. Have y’all a nice day.


Judy Mitchell  12:32 PM

Exactly, Mera, we don't need to hire a lawyer. Kevin pointed that out a while ago. But the original motion is worded to obligate the icg to do just that. That's why i was trying to amend it to say investigate TO hire instead of AND hire, but you two wouldn't listen. This c whike thing should have been scrapped when you found the nonprofit group, but you didn't. Now we have to vote, and if we end up with the original then we HAVE to hire someone.


Mera Rose  12:40 PM
Um, I wasn’t involved in Jacalyn’s motion.  I’ve been trying to put out there that there is a better way to do this without having to go through all of this.  I was a paralegal and I know what the hourly rates are.  It’s a gross misuse of funds.  I agree that the policies need to be made, but I don’t agree with “either side” on the approach at the moment.  And I don’t control withdrawing a motion - I can’t.  The motion to withdraw has to come from the original mover.  I’ve been trying to show this through multiple emails.  Please, everyone, stop assigning motives to each other.  It doesn’t help anything get done.


Betsy R. Marks  1:06 PM

As a reminder: this is the text of the original unamended motion:


Motion # 11-6-2019-1: motion for The ICG Board to hire an international lawyer to draft a. A code of conduct b. A non-discrimination policy c. An anti-harassment policy to be received no later than 31 December 2019 so that a vote can be completed no later than 31 January 2020.15 day discussion period ends November 21, 2019 at 4:45pm. 15 day voting period to run from 4:45pm Nov 21, 2019 to Dec 6, 2019.Again: should my amendment be defeated and the subsequent amendment also be defeated, this is the original motion on which we will vote:


Motion # 11-6-2019-1: motion for The ICG Board to hire an international lawyer to draft a. A code of conduct b. A non-discrimination policy c. An anti-harassment policy to be received no later than 31 December 2019 so that a vote can be completed no later than 31 January 2020.


15 day discussion period ends November 21, 2019 at 4:45pm. 15 day voting period to run from 4:45pm Nov 21, 2019 to Dec 6, 2019.


Seconded by Dragan Rose.


Dragan Rose  1:07 PM

Thanks Betsy, can I withdraw my second?


I want the code of conduct, but I am uncomfortable with forcing us to hire a lawyer without using other resources first.


Dragan Rose  1:13 PM

Maryland does have a large amount of resources for non-profits. Mera's been on the ball about reaching out to Maryland Non-profit network for help. Would this be a way to address the concerns about taking action instead of sitting on things until everyone forgets or we have a crisis staring us in the face?


[3 replies Last reply 2019-12-01 1:16 PM]


Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
All we have to do is pay them. Literally waiting to hear the check has been sent. It’s why I asked last week.


Mera Rose  2 years ago
I thought that’s why you asked.  Lol.


Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
I’m pretty sure EVERYONE realized it. Pretty obvious that was the way to go for a while now. But since we haven’t paid them yet, we are still stuck. But with this legislation passed, it allows us to pay them since we are having problem getting that taken care of quickly.


Mera Rose  1:14 PM
It would absolutely be the way to address it Sarah, but unfortunately the original mover has to be the one to withdraw.


[6 replies Last reply 2019-12-01 1:26 PM]


Dragan Rose  2 years ago

Fair enough.


Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
Yeah and it’s just not possible if we haven’t paid Maryland Nonprofits. Hopefully we can make that happen.


Dragan Rose  2 years ago

I agree.


Jeanine Swick  2 years ago

The is currently a motion on the floor concerning the expenditure of funds to do so.


Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
Yes. And hopefully it will pass so we can use Maryland Nonprofits to do this.


Mera Rose  2 years ago
And she just confirmed that she isn’t going to withdraw the original motion on 11-6-2019-1 until Maryland Nonprofits is paid and a policy committee is appointed.


Dragan Rose  1:17 PM

I have been tracking down other resources for Costume Con and the GCFCG. If I find anything else that can help I will share it with everyone.


Mera Rose  1:18 PM
So essentially, what I’m understanding is that Jacalyn intends to withdraw the entire motion if Maryland Nonprofits is paid.  So the second that we have a definite on that being done...  well, lol, the clock will have run out and this motion will have either been voted through or voted down.  Jeez.  @Pierre Pettinger Any methods to speed the Maryland Nonprofits issue?  I had already done a 7 day objection period before Jeanine insisted it must be moved and seconded to add to the budget for 2019.  Does that help at all?  Motion to accelerate maybe?


Jacalyn Boggs  1:18 PM
If Pierre says we can motion together accelerate consider this my moving to do so.


Mera Rose  1:19 PM
I’m assuming, Jacalyn, that you’re not going to withdraw until you know that Maryland Nonprofits is paid from your statements.  Correct?


[1 reply Last reply 2019-12-01 1:20 PM]


Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
Correct. At this point we need to hire a lawyer. If we pay Maryland nonprofits that’s takes care of that. Easy enough. So I’m just gonna sit and wait. I had hoped it would have been taken care of last week.


Merrily  1:22 PM
So is this motion tabled until the budget and approval for the nonprofit resources goes through all the proper procedural steps?


[1 reply Last reply 2019-12-01 1:24 PM]


Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
No. I think we are stuck in a waiting game. However we’ve asked Pierre about expediting the budgetary query.


Mera Rose  1:24 PM
No, the 1A1 amendment is in the process of voting and can’t be tabled at this point.


Mera Rose  1:27 PM
I’ve reached out to Pierre for assistance.


[6 replies Last reply 2019-12-01 1:42 PM]


Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
I have a brand new grand baby to indoctrinate to the glory of Glitziana. If he comes in and says we can expedite this, text me and I will happily make the motion. Seriously. I’m all in and ready to make this happen.


Mera Rose  2 years ago


Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
Thanks. She’s perfect in every way and beautiful at just over 12 hours old. And she’s going to be an amazing costumer some day. 4th generation!!! I am in love with her so much. December is the best month of 2019. :)


Dragan Rose  2 years ago

Woot!!! Congrats, hope everyone is doing well 


Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
Tired. Induction was hard. Took all weekend. We are all too tired!!! Didn’t start off the year thinking I would fall in love, but there you go. Here’s a baby photo to make everyone swoon. Lol  her name is Magnolia. :) expect her to take the world by storm.


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Mera Rose  2:00 PM
Pierre’s guidance on this follows:


Hi, Mera,


First,  I think we need to rethink exactly how we set up these discussion groups. We have so many different discussions going on that it is difficult to follow.


As to these motions, as I read them (and from your comments you reading them the same way).   


If 1A1 passes, 1A would require the Finance Committee to obtain three quotes for hiring a lawyer, but those quotes would be used to discuss the possibilities of hiring a lawyer and will not obligate the ICG to hire one.   


If 1A1 fails, then motion 1A remains unchanged. 1A requires the hiring of a lawyer, so if it passes (unchanged by 1A1) we would be required to hire a lawyer. If it fails, we default to the original language of 1.   


If 1A fails we default back to the original language of the motion and we are required to hire a lawyer if 1 passes. .   


If 1 fails (irregardless of the success or failures of 1A or 1A1) then we are back to where we started and we are not required to obtain quotes or hire a lawyer. (which if the motion to modify the budget to join the Maryland Nonprofit passes would allow us to pursue these goals through them)   


If 1 passes without modification from 1A1 we are required to hire a lawyer.


Hope this helps. As I said, you obviously understand this in the same way.




Those who fail to learn history
Are doomed to repeat it.
Those who fail to learn history correctly --
Why, they are simple doomed.


Achem Dro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact."
-- CY 4971


[1 reply Last reply 2019-12-01 2:02 PM]


Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
It would help if stuff stayed threaded too


Mera Rose  2:08 PM
There is a new channel #open-discussion-communications.  The purpose of the group is specifically to discuss how to manage communications at this time.  BoD and members are invited and encouraged to participate.  This is not a formal committee and is only to promote the exchanging of ideas.  Civil discourse only..


Jeanine Swick  2:23 PM

Not being snarky here. But please will people keep it only to discussing communications, If it is not related to that subject put it in #random or the appropriate channel.


Mera Rose  2:37 PM
From Pierre: (clarifying on withdrawal)


Technically, no one can withdraw it. It belongs to the body. Since voting on 1A1 has begun, no other action can begin until that vote is resolved.


Once 1A1 passes or fails, someone could make a motion to table indefinitely. This would kill it.


If it is tabled indefinitely, no one could move this specific motion again, at least for some period of time (an undefined amount. I would say at least several months.) The topic could be addressed differently.So,


if they would like to kill it, finish the current vote. Immediately move to table indefinitely (must be seconded). This motion is not debatable so you would restate it, then move to an immediate vote.


Those who fail to learn history
Are doomed to repeat it.
Those who fail to learn history correctly --
Why, they are simple doomed.

Achem Dro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact."
-- CY 4971


So there’s the guidance from Pierre.  If I can also offer an option, vote down the amendment so that the discussion period on 1A restarts, that will put 1A available to amend or table.  Either amend it and restart the clock, or table it.  Either way, the vote on Maryland Nonprofits can occur before the voting on 1A would occur, which would allow the motioner to request the withdrawal of the motion with a 5 day objection period.


Byron Connell  4:58 PM

Once again, I can find neither the text of the motion we're voting on or the polling place. Where are these on Slack? I'm totally lost.


Mera Rose  7:16 PM
A new channel called #polls was set up to make them easier to find.  The text of the motion and amendments is in