Messages in ICG-D group. 2001<  >2003 Page 60 of 1020. <  >
Group: ICG-D Message: 2952 From: bbriant@juno.com Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: Re: Santa banned from St. Louis mall!
Group: ICG-D Message: 2953 From: jeffreysmorris@aol.com Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: I Saw Mommy Busting Santa Claus
Group: ICG-D Message: 2954 From: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: File - subscribe.txt
Group: ICG-D Message: 2955 From: bbriant@juno.com Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: I Saw Mommy Busting Santa Claus
Group: ICG-D Message: 2956 From: Linda Peterson Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: I Saw Mommy Busting Santa Claus
Group: ICG-D Message: 2957 From: marymorris@aol.com Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 400
Group: ICG-D Message: 2958 From: Lorloth@aol.com Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Costuming in the Mall and other places
Group: ICG-D Message: 2959 From: randwhit@aol.com Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Costuming in the Mall and other places
Group: ICG-D Message: 2960 From: mscip@inreach.com Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Santa being banned from mall
Group: ICG-D Message: 2961 From: mscip@inreach.com Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Costuming in the Mall and other places
Group: ICG-D Message: 2962 From: randwhit@aol.com Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: civil rights abuses - was mall santas
Group: ICG-D Message: 2963 From: Lisa A Ashton Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Santa banned from St. Louis mall!
Group: ICG-D Message: 2964 From: Nebula5@aol.com Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: Query - Museums in Britian & Europe
Group: ICG-D Message: 2965 From: Byron Connell Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Looking for a Good Masquerade?!!
Group: ICG-D Message: 2966 From: mscip@inreach.com Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: Query - Museums in Britian & Europe
Group: ICG-D Message: 2967 From: Geoffrey Pruitt Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: privately-pwned property, etc.
Group: ICG-D Message: 2968 From: Bruno Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: privately-pwned property, etc.
Group: ICG-D Message: 2969 From: Stephanie Carrigg-Regan Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: Query - Museums in Britian & Europe
Group: ICG-D Message: 2970 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Santas, privately-pwned property, etc.
Group: ICG-D Message: 2971 From: randwhit@aol.com Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: privately-pwned property, etc.
Group: ICG-D Message: 2972 From: MicheleSol@aol.com Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 402 Several items
Group: ICG-D Message: 2973 From: Elaine Mami Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: fabricholic will
Group: ICG-D Message: 2974 From: marymorris@aol.com Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 403
Group: ICG-D Message: 2975 From: Lisa A Ashton Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: fabricholic will
Group: ICG-D Message: 2976 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: privately-pwned property, etc.
Group: ICG-D Message: 2977 From: mscip@inreach.com Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Restaurant Dress
Group: ICG-D Message: 2978 From: mscip@inreach.com Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Fabricholic's Will
Group: ICG-D Message: 2979 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Restaurant Dress
Group: ICG-D Message: 2980 From: MicheleSol@aol.com Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 404
Group: ICG-D Message: 2981 From: catdevereaux Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Lord of the Rings jewlry site
Group: ICG-D Message: 2982 From: Alix Jordan Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Fwd: New Costume Book
Group: ICG-D Message: 2983 From: bbriant@juno.com Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: costuming apa status
Group: ICG-D Message: 2984 From: Mark A. & Brenna Sharp Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Good Winter!
Group: ICG-D Message: 2985 From: randwhit@aol.com Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: SWCG Elections & Calendar
Group: ICG-D Message: 2986 From: Elaine Mami Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Ho Ho
Group: ICG-D Message: 2987 From: MicheleSol@aol.com Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 409 - Chinaman
Group: ICG-D Message: 2988 From: Dana MacDermott Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: Ho ho (?)
Group: ICG-D Message: 2989 From: Alix Jordan Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: Ho Ho
Group: ICG-D Message: 2990 From: Karen Heim Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: costuming apa status
Group: ICG-D Message: 2991 From: Elaine Mami Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: Ho ho (?)
Group: ICG-D Message: 2992 From: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/23/2001
Subject: File - subscribe.txt
Group: ICG-D Message: 2993 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 12/23/2001
Subject: Re: costuming apa status
Group: ICG-D Message: 2994 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: Re: Ho Ho
Group: ICG-D Message: 2995 From: ata1anta Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Venues being sought....
Group: ICG-D Message: 2996 From: randwhit@aol.com Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Re: Venues being sought....
Group: ICG-D Message: 2997 From: bbriant@juno.com Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Re: costuming apa status
Group: ICG-D Message: 2998 From: McClure, Kate Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Re: Ho ho (?)
Group: ICG-D Message: 2999 From: gloria white Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: server down
Group: ICG-D Message: 3000 From: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: File - Contact.txt
Group: ICG-D Message: 3001 From: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/2/2002
Subject: File - mailing-lists.txt


Group: ICG-D Message: 2952 From: bbriant@juno.com Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: Re: Santa banned from St. Louis mall!
from the lovely and talented geoffrey pruitt of st. louis:

>>Do you have any documentation? I'd be interested in hearing more,
since
a)I'm from St. Louis and b) I own the local Santa(tm) franchise<<

viz section a, i believe karen heim answered that.

viz section b, can you explain further re owning the local santa (TM)
franchise?

bruce b.

"It's kind of neat to do the impossible."
--Walt Disney

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: ICG-D Message: 2953 From: jeffreysmorris@aol.com Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: I Saw Mommy Busting Santa Claus
In a message dated 12/9/2001 1:45:29 PM Central Standard Time, ICG-D@yahoogroups.com writes:


Yeah but...apparently he's been doing this for several years without
complaint or problem. Certainly child safety is important, I was
responding to the kneejerk reaction of mall management ("Some guy in a
Santa suit who's not under our control? Ban him! No unauthorized Santas
allowed!").

It would've been more work on management's part to meet him, greet him,
present him with an annual pass to the mall (keys to the city sort of
thing), make him feel welcome, generate good publicity locally. Instead
they look like (concerned, lawsuit-fearing) jerks nationwide.


We were discussing this subject last night at the SLUT Christmas Party, as fate would have it. As much as I hate the latest trend of blaming everything on September 11, the mall in question did cite a change in security policy had occurred due to those events. Two other Westfield malls in the area, interestingly enough, had told "Santa" that they had no problem with it. But sometimes paranoia and caution tend to make people do things without double-checking, as apparently happened with the South County mall.

That being said, I'm *still* not crazy about some joker running around malls in a realistic Santa suit. Perhaps it's just my parental caution alarm going off, but as I said, all it takes is one molester in a suit luring a kid off...

JSM
Group: ICG-D Message: 2954 From: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: File - subscribe.txt
International Costumers' Guild HowTo.
Subscribing to the ICG-D mailing list.

ICG-D is the Yahoo Groups based discussion group for,
but not limited to, members of the International
Costumers' Guild.

Via eMail send a blank message to:
ICG-D-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Via web (requires signing up for eGroups):
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ICG-D
Then click on the {subscribe} button.

On initial subscription, I, as moderator, am willing
to switch your delivery option to Daily Digest. Beyond
that, I don't have a whole lot of control over your
personal settings.

If you wish to access the files sections, message archive,
set a posting alias, or use any of the other features of
Yahoo Groups, you must sign up for a Yahoo account.

If you subscribed to ICG-D via eMail, you will need to
"link" your eMail address to your Yahoo account to
access the ICG-D group features.

John O'Halloran
ICG Web/ListMaster

PS: To unsubscribe, see the bottom of any message
posted to the list.
Group: ICG-D Message: 2955 From: bbriant@juno.com Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: I Saw Mommy Busting Santa Claus
>From the desk of JSM:

>>That being said, I'm *still* not crazy about some joker running around
malls
in a realistic Santa suit. Perhaps it's just my parental caution alarm
going
off, but as I said, all it takes is one molester in a suit luring a kid
off...<<

What is up with that line of thinking? What if it's the mall Santa that's
the child molester? I do not understand your continued denigration of
someone expressing himself by dressing as Santa to do his Christmas
shopping.

Are you perceiving me as trying to ram acceptance of this man and his
costuming down your throat? If so, I'm sorry that I've come across that
way; that was never my intention.

My intention was to bring to this list a news item about a man who
chooses to do his Christmas shopping in a Santa suit and that he was
banished from one mall by mall management for no reason other than he was
dressed as Santa.

Does this affect this community? Maybe. It's certainly food for thought.
(Would you like it in a box? Would you like it with a fox?)

Bruce B.

"It's kind of neat to do the impossible."
--Walt Disney

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Group: ICG-D Message: 2956 From: Linda Peterson Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: I Saw Mommy Busting Santa Claus
If you have molestable small children running around loose in a shopping
mall, you have more serious problems as a parent and a human being.
(That's a generic you, by the way!) Small children can be snatched by
anybody, and it is extremely rude to let them roam shopping areas without
supervision.

I would have thought that costumers would understand the fun a pudgy old
guy with a beard can take in dressing up as Santa. Malls can lay down
rules on what employees can wear, but making edicts on what customers can
wear sounds like a lawsuit to me.

Linda

On Sun, 9 Dec 2001 jeffreysmorris@aol.com wrote:
> That being said, I'm *still* not crazy about some joker running around malls
> in a realistic Santa suit. Perhaps it's just my parental caution alarm going
> off, but as I said, all it takes is one molester in a suit luring a kid
> off...
>
> JSM
>

mirhaxa@morktorn.com
Group: ICG-D Message: 2957 From: marymorris@aol.com Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 400
Hello ICG-D@yahoogroups.com,

In reference to your comment:

è I would have thought that costumers would understand
è the fun a pudgy old guy with a beard can take in
è dressing up as Santa. Malls can lay down rules on
è what employees can wear, but making edicts on what
è customers can wear sounds like a lawsuit to me.

Actually, it's not. Malls are privately-owned property, and are free to make any kind of rules that they want about what customers can and can't wear. Ever see a 'no shirt, no shoes, no service' sign? I am aware of malls this year that banned costuming of any kind at Halloween this year, by anyone, and anyone who showed up in costume was escorted out firmly by security. (This from a friend in the Fort Worth area. To the best of my knowledge, the St. Louis area malls were much more tolerant)

Frankly - I have no particular problem with the Mall's policy on this particular issue. If that mall chooses not to make the guy welcome, that's their business and perfectly legal. Interestingly enough, the majority of other parents I've had the opportunity to speak to about this support the mall's policy too. They might not have a year ago, but the atmosphere in this country has changed, for good or for ill.

Mary
Group: ICG-D Message: 2958 From: Lorloth@aol.com Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Costuming in the Mall and other places
Just to stir things up a bit - there are other places where 'the management' may ask you to leave if you're in costume (or ask you not to come in costume) - places like Hampton Court and some of the theme parks where the staff and tour guides are in costume - it'll confuse the other visitors!

I believe Harrods refused to allow people in a few years ago, not because of being in costume, simply that they considered bare-midriffs inappropriate - technically a store is private property, so thay can ban who they want - they just risk making prats of themselves.

But then I've eaten at Pizza Hut in semi-medieaval costume and no one said anything - it's quite unusual for anyone to comment in the UK (unless it's American tourists!)

I reckon it's a bit steep banning the guy dressed as Santa, but yes, I think they should at least double check (give they guy a courtesy id pass or something, a big 'I'm off duty now' badge?), though I'd have thought shop-lifting would have been more likely than child molesting. He's in the uniform, it must be OK (works for lots of situations!)

And whilst I'm in no postition to lecture people on child care (I don't have any), unless you're tied to them, they do tend to sneak off when it's not convenient - I certainly did!

So much for the season of goodwill to all men!

Marion (CGUK)
Group: ICG-D Message: 2959 From: randwhit@aol.com Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Costuming in the Mall and other places
In a message dated 12/10/01 11:43:41 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
Lorloth@aol.com writes:

> I reckon it's a bit steep banning the guy dressed as Santa, but yes, I
think
> they should at least double check (give they guy a courtesy id pass or
> something, a big 'I'm off duty now' badge?), though I'd have thought shop-
> lifting would have been more likely than child molesting. He's in the
> uniform, it must be OK (works for lots of situations!)

I've seen this done in reverse.

Circa 1970, I visited a department store in Ottumwa, Iowa during the busiest
part of the Christmas season. I noticed something odd about the Santa statue
above the toy section.

His eyes were moving.

It was a store detective pretending to be part of the decorations!

The illusion would have been perfect if his dark Drew Carey glasses didn't
clash with the rest of the costume.

Randall
Group: ICG-D Message: 2960 From: mscip@inreach.com Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Santa being banned from mall
> From: jeffreysmorris@aol.com
>
> Actually, Bruce, if you stop and think about it, they've got good reasons for
> concern. Santa Claus is a figure much beloved--and trusted--by children. All
> it takes is one molester in costume...and you can take it from there.
>
Maybe, but that reads a bit hysterical to me. Yes, it is a possibility. Then
again, the "pro" can be just as bad. I've read some unsavory stories about some
of the "pros" and what they did.
>
> Hopefully you've got more of the story now and see the situation from both
> sides. As a parent, the thought of this guy running around dressed like that
> bothered me.
>
While parental concerns are legit, I am *tired* of 9/11 being used as an excuse
to limit my civil rights (absolutely chilling) and being used as an excuse to
limit other things that we used to take for granted. It *used* to be that people
walking around in Santa Claus outfits were encouraged to help "spread the cheer
of the season."

It seems like the terrorists have succeeded. We're becoming more like them. Our
civil rights are getting trampled, people go around in fear, and the things that
made a lot of what we do "fun" are getting squished by fear.

I am *not* saying that we shouldn't be aware. I am *not* saying that we shouln't
take action to protect ourselves.

I *am* saying that we should not overreact. I *am* saying that our civil rights
need to be protected even more now. Once civil rights are lost, you just about
cannot get them back.

One final point: while Bush and other government officials claim that "we are
in a state of war," no *formal* declaration of war has been declared. However,
members of government are *saying* that we are, and they are enacting powers as
though we were. This is a very scary time, folks. Please be aware.

Until later--

Carole
Group: ICG-D Message: 2961 From: mscip@inreach.com Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Costuming in the Mall and other places
> From: Lorloth@aol.com
>
> Just to stir things up a bit - there are other places where 'the management'
> may ask you to leave if you're in costume (or ask you not to come in costume)
> - places like Hampton Court and some of the theme parks where the staff and
> tour guides are in costume - it'll confuse the other visitors!
>
Disneyland in Anaheim, California comes most readily to mind. You should have
heard WorldCon attendees howling about their Disneyland excursions during
LA ConII.

> I believe Harrods refused to allow people in a few years ago, not because of
> being in costume, simply that they considered bare-midriffs inappropriate -
> technically a store is private property, so thay can ban who they want - they
> just risk making prats of themselves.
>
Yes, technically, stores are private businesses, but they are open to the
public. A mall is several stores in "one" space, but they are regarded as rather
public places.
>
Until later--

Carole
Group: ICG-D Message: 2962 From: randwhit@aol.com Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: civil rights abuses - was mall santas
In a message dated 12/11/01 2:08:48 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
mscip@inreach.com writes:

> While parental concerns are legit, I am *tired* of 9/11 being used as an
> excuse
> to limit my civil rights (absolutely chilling) and being used as an excuse
> to
> limit other things that we used to take for granted.

Amen to that!

I'm still outgassing a bit about being made to check my swiss army knife at
the door of a county office building last week.

Arizona law defines a knife as a weapon only if its blade is three inches or
longer. That law has not been changed, but local police were acting a though
it had. When the police can enforce laws that do not exist, we have a civil
rights crisis.

I had to turn out my pockets just to enter a public building. It's not even a
courthouse. To my mind, this is exactly what the fourth amendment would
define as an "unreasonable search of my person."

Randall
Group: ICG-D Message: 2963 From: Lisa A Ashton Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Santa banned from St. Louis mall!
Attachments :



     

    A St. Louis man who dresses as Santa to shop during the Christmas
    holidays was prevented from entering the Westfield mall by security
    guards, who felt that two Santas would confuse children.

    Mall managerment has reportedly decided on a 'no-costume' rule for
    non-employees.
    I don't have a problem with this very specific case of a non-union Santa during the holiday season, but the rule is stated in an over-general way.

    I'd hate to think I couldn't stop off for an orange julius on the way back from the renaissance faire. Heck, those are my work clothes.

    I hope the guards handled the situation gently. The kiddies wouldn't enjoy seen Santa led off in handcuffs either.

    Randall
     
    Actually, this reminds me of a somewhat funny story from last year--my husband runs a natural food grocery store and they had to call the cops to actually arrest a guy dressed as Santa who was shoplifting at the store.  It wasn't the first time he had stolen from them; they had tried dealing with him without having to call the police, but the guy just kept it up, so finally my husband had no choice!  He said it was tough call, though.
     
    Yours in costuming,  Lisa A.

    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    ICG-D-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
     
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2964 From: Nebula5@aol.com Date: 12/12/2001
    Subject: Re: Query - Museums in Britian & Europe
    Queen Dress Exhibit Opens at Museum

    .c The Associated Press

     
    LONDON (AP) - A collection of Queen Elizabeth II's most extravagant and decorative evening gowns went on display in southwest England on Tuesday to celebrate the British monarch's Golden Jubilee.

    The 14 dresses on display at the Museum of Costume in Bath were designed by Sir Norman Hartnell, Sir Hardy Amies and Ian Thomas. Included is one of the queen's favorites, a pink silk-organza gown from the 1960s embroidered with silver beads and white gauze ribbon in a flower design.

    Opening the exhibition, British Broadcasting Corp. correspondent Jennie Bond said that while the queen has never been a fashion icon like the late Princess Diana, or Princess Margaret in her youth, her dresses influenced mainstream style.

    ``Princess Margaret was extremely pretty and people used to follow what she was wearing, but Elizabeth almost had to be more understated - dignified at all times,'' Bond said. ``I think these dresses reflect that - there is no room to be adventurous, but I am sure that many of the trends were followed.''

    Rosemary Harden, keeper of collections at the Museum of Costume, said it was a misconception that the queen wore a different dress every time she appeared in public. It was more important to the queen that the gowns were practical and stylish and, when she was traveling, that they fit in with local traditions.

    ``What matters to her is that she wears something appropriate to the occasion,'' Harden said. ``The clothes convey a message. This is very much the queen's working wardrobe.''

    AP-NY-12-11-01 1426EST

    Copyright 2001 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2965 From: Byron Connell Date: 12/12/2001
    Subject: Looking for a Good Masquerade?!!
    Looking for a Good Masquerade?!!

    Come to Boston in January!

    The Arisia 2002 Masquerade will be held on Saturday, January 19,
    at the Boston Park Plaza Hotel, Boston, MA, during the Arisia '02
    science fiction convention (January 18 - 20). I'm the masquerade
    director.

    The Arisia masquerade is one of the best on the East Coast. It
    runs basically according to the ICG Guidelines for International
    -level Competitions. Arisia is a costume-friendly con. It attracts
    some of the best work in the northeast; ICG members are well
    represented.

    We will have:

    -- Competent and experienced stage, green room, and tech crews

    -- Good judges - both presentation and workmanship - who are
    knowledgeable and experienced

    -- A REAL stage! A permanent stage, not one taped together for
    the occasion.

    -- A very appreciative audience. Arisia normally runs to about
    1200 members and fills the hotel's (very large) Grand Ballroom.

    To preserve one of the oldest and dearest masquerade traditions,
    passage to and from the stage will be through the kitchen. But,
    the floor will be clean!

    Not only that, but Arisia is a fun con. It is program-heavy, with
    programming on sf literature, science, gaming, art, fandoms, and
    costuming (usually a full track). Katherine Kurtz (a costumer!) is
    the Guest of Honor. Arisia has an excellent art show; Tristan
    Alexander is the Artist GoH. Arisia has a large room designed to
    separate you from your money (dealers' room); it has books,
    clothing, art, media items, fannish stuff - you name it!

    Full memberships are $40.00, in advance at this point or at the
    door, payable to Arisia. For more information, check the Arisia
    web site: www.arisia.org.

    Tina and I have been to every Arisia since the first one, except
    #2. We wouldn't miss it and we enthusiastically recommend it to
    you.

    Byron
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2966 From: mscip@inreach.com Date: 12/12/2001
    Subject: Re: Query - Museums in Britian & Europe
    > From: Nebula5@aol.com
    >
    > Queen Dress Exhibit Opens at Museum
    >
    > ..c The Associated Press
    >
    > LONDON (AP) - A collection of Queen Elizabeth II's most extravagant and
    > decorative evening gowns went on display in southwest England on Tuesday to
    > celebrate the British monarch's Golden Jubilee.
    >
    I'd be interested to see if anyone makes the exhibit and writes up a review.

    Until later--

    Carole
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2967 From: Geoffrey Pruitt Date: 12/12/2001
    Subject: Re: privately-pwned property, etc.
    Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:21:20 EST
    From: marymorris@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Digest Number 400

    Hello ICG-D@yahoogroups.com,
    >>start quote<<
    In reference to your comment:

    � I would have thought that costumers would understand
    � the fun a pudgy old guy with a beard can take in
    � dressing up as Santa. Malls can lay down rules on
    � what employees can wear, but making edicts on what
    � customers can wear sounds like a lawsuit to me.

    Actually, it's not. Malls are privately-owned property, and are free to make
    any kind of rules that they want about what customers can and can't wear.
    Ever see a 'no shirt, no shoes, no service' sign?

    >>end quote<<

    Not entirely correct. By your logic, a restaurant (for example) could
    choose to exclude someone based on the color of their skin. Obviously
    that's no longer allowed, in spite of the fact that the restaurant is
    provately owned. That is is for public used admits the property to certain
    constraints.

    The "no shirt, no shoes, no service" rule is a result of health laws.

    To provide a further (inflammatory) example, how far is it from banning a
    Santa suit to banning a religious t-shirt? Saint Nicholas is, arguably,
    still a Christian saint, after all; one could make an argument based on
    freedom of expression.

    From there, the argument lends itself to even more personal examples:
    religious jewelry, those "WWJD" lanyards, or, to draw it back a pace from
    the religious line, unusual piercings. Some people find 'em offensive, or
    at least tacky; plus they can upset metal detectors. Ban em?

    Slippery slope, memsab.

    -Geoffrey

    _________________________________________________________________
    Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2968 From: Bruno Date: 12/12/2001
    Subject: Re: privately-pwned property, etc.
    >
    > The "no shirt, no shoes, no service" rule is a result of health laws.
    >

    Notice how there's not a sign for "No Pants, No Service." There used to be
    a show on MTV that actually tested this by going into a store wearing only a
    shirt and shoes (shirt was just long enough to cover). They were promptly
    refused service.

    Bruno
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2969 From: Stephanie Carrigg-Regan Date: 12/12/2001
    Subject: Re: Query - Museums in Britian & Europe
    > > From: Nebula5@aol.com
    > >
    > > Queen Dress Exhibit Opens at Museum
    > >
    > > ..c The Associated Press
    > >
    > > LONDON (AP) - A collection of Queen Elizabeth II's most extravagant and
    > > decorative evening gowns went on display in southwest England on Tuesday
    to
    > > celebrate the British monarch's Golden Jubilee.
    For those of us who cannot get to see this exhibit, there will be a souvenir
    book available in January. Contact, Judith Zedner at
    judith_zedner@bathnes.gov.uk for more infiormation on the book.

    Stephanie
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2970 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 12/12/2001
    Subject: Santas, privately-pwned property, etc.
    I dunno. While I won't go so far as some as to scream about our civil
    rights are being trampled (this never was a completely free country, no
    matter what they think), I agree with the policy of the private property
    issue. Personally, I think Westfield was being a colossal poo. and let's
    think about this from the costumer's standpoint - they effectively stifled
    his right to express himself. But, again, since it's private property, they
    can do that. the arguement being that he can do it anywhere else but there.

    I agree that there has been overeaction to 9/11 in some quarters, blaming it
    for a host of events running from inconsiderate to complete idiocy.
    Frankly, I think it's sad that there are morons out there who ruin something
    for everyone else by hijacking something that people previously trusted.
    While I'm no fan of clowns, John Wayne Gacy forever changed the way a lot of
    folks look at them.
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2971 From: randwhit@aol.com Date: 12/12/2001
    Subject: Re: privately-pwned property, etc.
    In a message dated 12/12/2001 5:25:40 PM US Mountain Standard Time, bruno@armyofdorkness.org writes:


    Notice how there's not a sign for "No Pants, No Service."  


    There was, but the scotsmen protested.

    Randall
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2972 From: MicheleSol@aol.com Date: 12/13/2001
    Subject: Re: Digest Number 402 Several items
    Sad about the Santa, I'm not sure which way I would fall on that.  It brings to mind an old movie wasn't it called Robin and the 7 Hoods?

    6 Flags doesn't permit costumes especially during Halloween.  But the Bristol Faire welcomes them.  (you often get better discounts)

    Good luck Byron, I won't be able to get there.  I have two cons in Feb. one in Australia and should be having minor surgery the first week of Jan.  (Can't get it scheduled the last week of this year because apparently everyone is trying to fill up their deductibles.)  Work is being nice.  If I work 12/ 27 & 28 they'll put in the day this year, but I can take it next year.

    The house is done except for the shower door and towel bars/hooks.  The shower door was sold out from under me, which turned out to be a good thing since it apparently had been ordered in the wrong size (something else the old contractor did wrong).  Another nightmare that turned into a blessing.  

    I had the Dec. mtg. here and made my first dinner for folks.  One lady want to know if I ever put my house up for sale and  I've been asked to will my fabric to a couple of folks already and one even sent me this fabric  will.

    Fabricholic's Will

    Being of sound mind and body, I _____, do hereby record my last will and
    testament, knowing that _______, my ________, (husband, sister, daughter,
    etc.) has no appreciation of, or in some instances knowledge of, my
    extensive fabric collection deposited throughout the house.

    Knowing also that ____ has notified the local thrift store should I precede
    him or her to the great fabric shop in the sky, to pick up and dispose of
    the aforementioned collection.

    Therefore, I do will this collection, and all collections related to it, to
    my dear fabric preservationist _______.  It is my wish that she, upon
    hearing of my death and the inability to take it with me, come to my home
    and stack my entire collection in my studio.  She should then purchase
    refreshments for all my friends, and they shall gather in that room and
    remember me, then peacefully divide the collection amongst themselves.

    Be forewarned, I will be hovering over this process!  The rest of my worldly
    possessions (car, stocks, house, etc.) can go to those who do not understand
    this event.

    Signed _________

    Date ________

    I may actually fill out a copy and give it to my sister.

    Bye!

    Michele
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2973 From: Elaine Mami Date: 12/13/2001
    Subject: fabricholic will
    Finally, an IMPORTANT costume topic!

    E


    _________________________________________________________________
    Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2974 From: marymorris@aol.com Date: 12/13/2001
    Subject: Re: Digest Number 403
    Hello ICG-D@yahoogroups.com,

    In reference to your comment:

    è Personally, I think Westfield was being a colossal
    è poo.  and let's think about this from the costumer's
    è standpoint - they effectively stifled his right to express
    è himself.  But, again, since it's private property, they
    è can do that.  the arguement being that he can do it
    è anywhere else but there

    One point that may have applied specifically to the Westfield mall in question (South County). It's currently under MASSIVE reconstruction. The whole thing is being ripped apart and rebuilt - the last time we were out there roughly a month ago, it was literally a warren of construction, scaffolding, dust, confusion, etc. I am wondering if that played into the mall manager's decision, since apparently the decision was made for that mall alone and not for the other Westfield properties such as Crestwood Plaza Mall.

    Mary
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2975 From: Lisa A Ashton Date: 12/13/2001
    Subject: Re: fabricholic will
    Yes, Elaine, this is something that we should publish in the Quarterly!

    Yours in costuming, Lisa A.
    ________________________________________________________________
    GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
    Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
    Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
    http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2976 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 12/13/2001
    Subject: Re: privately-pwned property, etc.
    >
    >
    >Not entirely correct. By your logic, a restaurant (for example) could
    >choose to exclude someone based on the color of their skin. Obviously
    >that's no longer allowed, in spite of the fact that the restaurant is
    >provately owned. That is is for public used admits the property to certain
    >constraints.
    >
    >The "no shirt, no shoes, no service" rule is a result of health laws.


    This can vary from place to place. However, I have read many articles from
    various places that claim that this is largely untrue. Many restaurants
    will claim that the prohibition is due to health regulations, but such
    regulations don't always exist.


    >To provide a further (inflammatory) example, how far is it from banning a
    >Santa suit to banning a religious t-shirt? Saint Nicholas is, arguably,
    >still a Christian saint, after all; one could make an argument based on
    >freedom of expression.
    >
    > From there, the argument lends itself to even more personal examples:
    >religious jewelry, those "WWJD" lanyards, or, to draw it back a pace from
    >the religious line, unusual piercings. Some people find 'em offensive, or
    >at least tacky; plus they can upset metal detectors. Ban em?
    >
    >Slippery slope, memsab.
    >
    >-Geoffrey

    "Those Who Fail To Learn History
    Are Doomed To Repeat It;
    Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly--
    Why They Are Simply Doomed."

    Achemdro'hm
    "The Illusion of Historical Fact"
    -- C.Y. 4971

    Andromeda
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2977 From: mscip@inreach.com Date: 12/14/2001
    Subject: Restaurant Dress
    > From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger <costumrs@radiks.net>
    >
    > >Not entirely correct. By your logic, a restaurant (for example) could
    > >choose to exclude someone based on the color of their skin. Obviously
    > >that's no longer allowed, in spite of the fact that the restaurant is
    > >provately owned. That is is for public used admits the property to certain
    > >constraints.
    > >
    > >The "no shirt, no shoes, no service" rule is a result of health laws.
    >
    > This can vary from place to place. However, I have read many articles from
    > various places that claim that this is largely untrue. Many restaurants
    > will claim that the prohibition is due to health regulations, but such
    > regulations don't always exist.
    >
    While I would ordinarily agree with you, I will disagree with you on this point.
    Even the local nudist colony requires that towels be worn around the posterior
    in the dining room.

    Until later--

    Carole
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2978 From: mscip@inreach.com Date: 12/14/2001
    Subject: Fabricholic's Will
    > From: MicheleSol@aol.com
    >
    > I had the Dec. mtg. here and made my first dinner for folks. One lady want
    > to know if I ever put my house up for sale and I've been asked to will my
    > fabric to a couple of folks already and one even sent me this fabric will.
    >
    > Fabricholic's Will
    >
    > Being of sound mind and body, I _____, do hereby record my last will and
    > testament, knowing that _______, my ________, (husband, sister, daughter,
    > etc.) has no appreciation of, or in some instances knowledge of, my
    > extensive fabric collection deposited throughout the house.
    >
    > Knowing also that ____ has notified the local thrift store should I precede
    > him or her to the great fabric shop in the sky, to pick up and dispose of
    > the aforementioned collection.
    >
    > Therefore, I do will this collection, and all collections related to it, to
    > my dear fabric preservationist _______. It is my wish that she, upon
    > hearing of my death and the inability to take it with me, come to my home
    > and stack my entire collection in my studio. She should then purchase
    > refreshments for all my friends, and they shall gather in that room and
    > remember me, then peacefully divide the collection amongst themselves.
    >
    > Be forewarned, I will be hovering over this process! The rest of my worldly
    > possessions (car, stocks, house, etc.) can go to those who do not understand
    > this event.
    >
    > Signed _________
    >
    > Date ________
    >
    Can I get the name of the person who actually wrote this? I'd be interested in
    putting this on www.costumingtips.org in the humor section, but I would want to
    give credit to the appropriate individual(s). If it's something copyrighted on
    someone's website already, I would like to link up to it.

    Until later--

    Carole
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2979 From: Bruce & Nora Mai Date: 12/14/2001
    Subject: Re: Restaurant Dress
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: <mscip@inreach.com>
    Subject: [ICG-D] Restaurant Dress


    > While I would ordinarily agree with you, I will disagree with you on this
    point.
    > Even the local nudist colony requires that towels be worn around the
    posterior
    > in the dining room.


    Ew. Now THERE'S a visual I could've done without....

    Bruce

    Bruce and Nora Mai
    Casa Mai! It's not just for Breakfast anymore
    http://casamai.com
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2980 From: MicheleSol@aol.com Date: 12/15/2001
    Subject: Re: Digest Number 404
    I sent all I have.  I was told it came from Sew News.

    Michele
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2981 From: catdevereaux Date: 12/17/2001
    Subject: Lord of the Rings jewlry site
    There's a new web site up from the person who did the jewlry from
    LOTRs. Though you might like to check it out.

    http://www.jasminewatson.com

    One warning, it's a new site and they're still tweeking it so things
    like scroll bar don't work and navigation is a pill, but the images
    are worth it. Slow loading too.

    Have fun...

    Ya've got to see the movie... actually more than once if you want to
    see the costumes because the first time you'll be much too involved
    in the story.

    -Cat-
    (jazzed at having seen it already, and can't wait for Wed night to
    see it again.)
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2982 From: Alix Jordan Date: 12/19/2001
    Subject: Fwd: New Costume Book
    Gentlebeings:

    I am forwarding this message from Penny Lipman.

    Peace
    Alixandra
    eddana@hotmail.com



    >Hi Guys:
    > Just thought I would pass this on. This new book now available from
    >Amazon.com, but it is probably available in town too.
    >
    >Jean Hunnisett
    >Period Costumes for Stage & Screen
    > Patterns for Outer Garments, Book 1: Cloaks, Capes Stoles and Wadded
    >Mantles
    >Players Press, Inc.
    >ISBN: 0-88734-665-0
    >
    >Thanks,
    >Penny.




    _________________________________________________________________
    Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2983 From: bbriant@juno.com Date: 12/21/2001
    Subject: costuming apa status
    Haven't heard much lately about Costume and Masquerade (?). Is it still a
    going concern? How many members? How do I join?

    Thanks,
    Bruce B.

    "It's kind of neat to do the impossible."
    --Walt Disney

    ________________________________________________________________
    GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
    Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
    Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
    http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2984 From: Mark A. & Brenna Sharp Date: 12/21/2001
    Subject: Good Winter!
    May your pantries always be well-stocked and your heating bills always be
    paid.

    Good Winter, y'all!

    Brenna and Vincent (aka Mark)
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2985 From: randwhit@aol.com Date: 12/21/2001
    Subject: SWCG Elections & Calendar
    The following officers were elected for 2002 at the Southwest Costumers Guild
    meeting on December 16, 2001. They can be reached at the e-mail aliases
    given.

    Randall Whitlock - president@southwestcostumersguild.org
    Jean Palmer - vicepresident@southwestcostumersguild.org
    Kim Martin - treasurer@southwestcostumersguild.org
    Paula Lary - secretary@southwestcostumersguild.org
    Stephanie Bannon - editor@southwestcostumersguild.org

    Meeting topics and central Arizona costumed happenings are given on the
    calendar at www.southwestcostumersguild.org
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2986 From: Elaine Mami Date: 12/21/2001
    Subject: Ho Ho
    Hi, all,

    Happy December gift-giving-holiday-of-your-choice. May we all avoid pissing
    off that ancient Chinaman in 2002.

    Elaine

    _________________________________________________________________
    Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2987 From: MicheleSol@aol.com Date: 12/22/2001
    Subject: Re: Digest Number 409 - Chinaman
    That's for damn sure! I could do with a boring life for a while.
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2988 From: Dana MacDermott Date: 12/22/2001
    Subject: Re: Ho ho (?)
    >Happy December gift-giving-holiday-of-your-choice. May we all avoid pissing
    >off that ancient Chinaman in 2002.
    >
    >Elaine

    Are you referring to the curse of interesting times? (I hope you
    are not referring to my 94 year old Chinese Great Uncle; he is really quite
    harmless and rather charming. Takes good care of my very sharp 103 year
    old Aunt, too. Or maybe she takes good care of him.)
    Dana
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2989 From: Alix Jordan Date: 12/22/2001
    Subject: Re: Ho Ho
    Dear Elaine:

    >Happy December gift-giving-holiday-of-your-choice.

    I once made up cards which read: Have a Happy Pick One. and followed
    it with any holiday which came to mind up to and including Hogswatch Night
    and National Ardvark Day.

    So may you have a blessed holiday and a joyour new year.

    Peace
    Alixandra
    eddana@hotmail.com

    _________________________________________________________________
    Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
    http://www.hotmail.com
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2990 From: Karen Heim Date: 12/22/2001
    Subject: Re: costuming apa status
    There are 20 members currently - come one, come all; no waiting!

    Contact Sandy and Pierre about joining up; their co-editor, Ramona
    Taylor, who had been handling the signup and collating parts, has
    decided to drop back to only being a contributor. This probably means,
    if they don't find someone quickly, that they'll handle things alone for
    a while. Next submissions are theoretically due in late February (like
    any issue has *ever* been on time).

    Karen

    bbriant@juno.com wrote:

    >Haven't heard much lately about Costume and Masquerade (?). Is it still a
    >going concern? How many members? How do I join?
    >
    >Thanks,
    >Bruce B.
    >
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2991 From: Elaine Mami Date: 12/22/2001
    Subject: Re: Ho ho (?)
    >
    > Are you referring to the curse of interesting times? (I hope you
    >are not referring to my 94 year old Chinese Great Uncle; he is really quite
    >harmless and rather charming. Takes good care of my very sharp 103 year
    >old Aunt, too. Or maybe she takes good care of him.)
    >Dana
    >

    I don't think that 94 qualifies as "ancient." Although I am glad to hear
    about him. Maybe he could exert some influence? It couldn't hurt to ask.

    Here's to a bit of boredom!

    E


    _________________________________________________________________
    Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
    http://www.hotmail.com
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2992 From: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/23/2001
    Subject: File - subscribe.txt
    International Costumers' Guild HowTo.
    Subscribing to the ICG-D mailing list.

    ICG-D is the Yahoo Groups based discussion group for,
    but not limited to, members of the International
    Costumers' Guild.

    Via eMail send a blank message to:
    ICG-D-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

    Via web (requires signing up for eGroups):
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ICG-D
    Then click on the {subscribe} button.

    On initial subscription, I, as moderator, am willing
    to switch your delivery option to Daily Digest. Beyond
    that, I don't have a whole lot of control over your
    personal settings.

    If you wish to access the files sections, message archive,
    set a posting alias, or use any of the other features of
    Yahoo Groups, you must sign up for a Yahoo account.

    If you subscribed to ICG-D via eMail, you will need to
    "link" your eMail address to your Yahoo account to
    access the ICG-D group features.

    John O'Halloran
    ICG Web/ListMaster

    PS: To unsubscribe, see the bottom of any message
    posted to the list.
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2993 From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: 12/23/2001
    Subject: Re: costuming apa status
    To anyone interested in joining Costume and Masquerade:

    Yes we are a going concern and we do have space. Cost is $20 per year for 4
    issues. Contributors must send two submissions per year.

    Send requests and checks to us at (Pierre and Sandy Pettinger) to 5100
    Leighton Ave. Lincoln, NE 68504. We are in the process of shifting the
    bank account from St. Louis to Lincoln, so for the moment make checks out
    to us directly and note Costume and Masquerade on the memo line at the
    lower left.

    Pierre and Sandy Pettinger

    At 11:01 AM 12/21/01, you wrote:
    >Haven't heard much lately about Costume and Masquerade (?). Is it still a
    >going concern? How many members? How do I join?
    >
    >Thanks,
    >Bruce B.
    >
    >"It's kind of neat to do the impossible."
    >--Walt Disney
    >
    >________________________________________________________________
    >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
    >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
    >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
    >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
    >
    >
    >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    >ICG-D-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >
    >
    >
    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

    "Those Who Fail To Learn History
    Are Doomed To Repeat It;
    Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly--
    Why They Are Simply Doomed."

    Achemdro'hm
    "The Illusion of Historical Fact"
    -- C.Y. 4971

    Andromeda
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2994 From: Betsy Delaney Date: 12/24/2001
    Subject: Re: Ho Ho
    I prefer:

    Merry Winter Holiday of Your Choice and a Happy New Year.

    Best to all!

    Betsy

    --
    Betsy R. Delaney
    Web Mistress at large
    WebInvent.com, Inc.

    ************************************************************************
    mailto:WebInvent@WebInvent.com or visit http://www.WebInvent.com/
    mailto:Costume-Con@Costume-Con.org or visit http://www.Costume-Con.org/
    mailto:betsy@hawkeswood.com or visit http://www.hawkeswood.com/
    ************************************************************************
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2995 From: ata1anta Date: 12/26/2001
    Subject: Venues being sought....
    Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 21:45:17 -0000
    From: "kitwolfdesigns" <ldykitwolf@aol.com>
    Subject: Seeking Venues

    Hi! Im the owner of a small costume / garb business, I was hoping
    some of you could help me out. Im trying to figure out what shows,
    fairs, cons, larps and events to sell at. I live in NJ and they
    shows need to be fairly local.
    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2996 From: randwhit@aol.com Date: 12/27/2001
    Subject: Re: Venues being sought....
    In a message dated 12/26/01 2:43:32 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
    atalanta@goldapples.com writes:

    > Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 21:45:17 -0000
    > From: "kitwolfdesigns" <ldykitwolf@aol.com>
    > Subject: Seeking Venues
    >
    > Hi! Im the owner of a small costume / garb business, I was hoping
    > some of you could help me out. Im trying to figure out what shows,
    > fairs, cons, larps and events to sell at. I live in NJ and they
    > shows need to be fairly local.
    > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    > Thanks

    I'm in very much the same situation, except that my territory is Arizona.

    The SCA's Pennsic War in August is a good venue for garb makers, if western
    Pennsylvania is within your driving distance and you don't mind camping.

    Sincerely
    Randall Whitlock
    www.moirandalls.com
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2997 From: bbriant@juno.com Date: 12/27/2001
    Subject: Re: costuming apa status
    thank you karen, ramona and pierre & sandy for the info about costume and
    masquerade!

    bruce b.

    "It's kind of neat to do the impossible."
    --Walt Disney

    ________________________________________________________________
    GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
    Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
    Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
    http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2998 From: McClure, Kate Date: 12/27/2001
    Subject: Re: Ho ho (?)
    > >Happy December gift-giving-holiday-of-your-choice. May we all avoid
    > pissing
    > >off that ancient Chinaman in 2002.
    > >
    > >Elaine
    >
    >
    Hear! Hear! However, I have some bad news on that subject. It has come to my
    attention that the one thing that truly torks off those Ancient Chinese (Who
    are really, really, wonderful people, wise and kind and forgiving and please
    don't make my life more interesting please please please!) is:

    CLUTTER!


    We are all doomed.


    Just thought you'd like to know. ;)


    Kate McClure
    Known to answer to Frau Vilda,
    StitchWitch, Mad Gracie Rackham, free chocolate . . .
    Masquerade Director - Norwescon 25
    Treasurer, Beyond Reality Costumer's Guild

    * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ *
    Q - What are a redneck's last words?

    A - Hold mah beer an' watch this!
    * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ *
    Group: ICG-D Message: 2999 From: gloria white Date: 12/30/2001
    Subject: server down
    If you are trying to reach Carl Mami, Elaine Mami, or Dora Buck via email,
    their server is down until January 5th. So if you need to talk to them
    before the 5th you will have to call them via the telephone.

    thanks
    Gloria

    _________________________________________________________________
    Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
    Group: ICG-D Message: 3000 From: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/2/2002
    Subject: File - Contact.txt
    Lasted updated: 10/15/2000

    For ICG business:

    webmaster@costume.org For items about the web pages
    listmaster@costume.org For items or issues about the mailing lists
    ICG-BOD-owner@egroups.com
    ICG-D-owner@egroups.com
    icg@costume.org For anything else

    The following also work:

    heyyou@costume.org
    <anything>@costume.org

    They all go into a single mailbox, but using a specific address
    makes my sorting easier.

    Side note: I sort the Mailing Lists based on the Subject, ie:
    [ICG-L], [ICG-BOD], etc. I check my inbox on a regular basis,
    but not the mailing lists. Please don't assume I'll see a
    message quickly just because it's posted to a mailing list
    or is forwarded while still containing the mailing list name.

    Please note: costume is NOT plural and the top level domain is ORG.

    My personal mail address:

    ICG business messages will be forwarded back to the ICG account
    for answering from there.

    Eoin@TyeDye.Org
    JohnO@TyeDye.Org
    johalloran@TyeDye.Org
    <any-standard-variant-of-my-name>@TyeDye.Org

    Please note: The top level domain is ORG

    Note: The account icg@inwap.com is a archival account which
    I check every few months. So don't bother sending anything
    there. Hmmm, need to get that moved too.
    <currently not archiving>

    If you really need to get in touch with me in a hurry:

    Home Phone: 510-713-9519, till midnight, pacific, GMT -8

    If you want to send me hardcopy:

    36024 Cabrillo Drive
    Fremont, CA 94536

    John O'Halloran
    ICG Web/ListMaster
    Group: ICG-D Message: 3001 From: ICG-D@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/2/2002
    Subject: File - mailing-lists.txt
    Administrivia: About the ICG mailing lists.

    Due to a crash of the Best List Server in early October,
    the ICG mailing lists were moved to eGroups. When the
    server came back up, the membership decided it liked eGroups.

    The ICG has 2 mailing lists, the ICG General Discussion (ICG-D)
    list and the ICG Board of Directors (ICG-BOD) list.

    ICG-D is intended for, but not limited to, the general membership
    of the International Costumers' Guild.

    ICG-BOD is intended for, and limited to, the members of the
    International Costumers' Guild Board of Directors as defined
    by Article 5, Section 1 of the ICG Bylaws and those non-voting
    parties as invited by the BOD to provide commentary.

    To post to the lists use the following addresses:

    ICG-D@egroups.com for general membership discussion.
    ICG-BOD@egroups.com for officer level discussions.

    To subscribe, please see the Subscription HowTo contained
    in subscribe.txt for instructions.

    Notes:

    Policies of the ICG-D and ICG-BOD mailing list:

    1) No Flaming. The moderator will issue one and only one warning.

    If the flaming continues, all parties flaming will be unsubscribed.

    2) No detailed discussion of the actual making of costumes.

    "Huh?" you say. When this list was set up, its intention was
    not to draw traffic away other costuming lists such as
    H-Costume, F-Costume, Vintage, etc, but to promote discussion
    about the ICG and costuming in general between members.

    Detailed discussions will be encouraged to move or cross post
    to one of the other lists.

    3) If someone directly requests the moderator to subscribe/unsubscribe
    them they will be sent this message and the moderator will
    subsingle/unsubscribe them.

    4) No SPAM! Suspect addresses in subscription requests will have their
    identity verified.

    5) No Chain Letters. I know some of them pull at your heart strings
    or have you fearing for your hard drive, but most are inaccurate
    (at best), out-of-date or fake (at worst).

    6) Severely off-topic discussions or violations of these few policies
    will flagged by a message from the moderator with [RIP]* in the
    subject line. Further discussion after the posting of the [RIP]
    message should be taken to private eMail.

    7) No viral advertising! Do not send messages with advertisements
    attached. It is bad enough we have to put up with the ads attached
    to the free eMail accounts, without members taking the conscious act
    of attaching advertising. I consider these one step above SPAM.

    8) Subscribers whose accounts bounces mail will be deactivated.

    "If messages sent to a member are consistently returned"
    will deactivate your account from stop sending the mailing
    list to your address.

    For freemail account holders (Hotmail, Juno, Excitemail, etc)
    Please be aware you account has limitations and will bounce
    mail when you exceed you quota or have a full mailbox.


    John O'Halloran
    ICG List/WebMaster

    * I originally used Rip as in the sense of a ripping seam, but when
    capitalized, its other meaning worked as well.