Messages in ICG #boardofdirectors (Slack) <2019-11-30 2019-12-02>
Mera Rose 6:19 AM
Don’t forget to fill out the 2019 ICG Survey of Members! The survey
results up to 11:59pm EST 12/1/2019 will be published (without names, in random
order) tomorrow on the Slack channel #2019survey. Please click the
link below to make your opinion know on many of the motions and discussions
that are currently occurring in committees and Board of Directors.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSe-bgGojr4IVAd-q27buXAvBUmpJzvhJBuxMNZZ8WDG3IrtTw/viewform
Jeanine
Swick 11:22
AM
Speaking
as the ICG Treasurer here hoping to make a clearer understanding about the
potential financial impact the voting on Motion 11-06-2019-1A1 could have.A
YES
vote means we MUST RESEARCH the costs of hiring a lawyer to write policies we
could probably get for free and decide if we want to spend the money.
A
NO vote means we MUST HIRE a lawyer to write policies we could probably get for
free regardless of cost or whether it could bankrupt the corporation.
Mera Rose 11:25 AM
Cross posted to Yahoo:
Or, a no vote could mean that we want to simply vote down the proposal entirely
in favor of using Maryland Nonprofits services for $100/year and ensure that
we’re using a nonprofit attorney in the state of Maryland for the lowest cost.
(That’s why I voted no, lol.)
Cordially,
Mera Babineaux
[1 reply Last reply 2019-12-01 11:31 AM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Yeah $100 a year is hardly going to bankrupt the ICG. However, not getting
important documents and/or allowing there to be problems of
harassment/discrimination?
That’s a whole other problem.
Merrily 11:39 AM
Wouldn’t the MD non profit be a quote for their
services for the listed items. A no vote would mean we have to hire a lawyer
instead of their services. At least that is how I’m reading the motion.
[1 reply Last reply 2019-12-01 12:33 PM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Actually, Maryland Nonprofit offers a lot of services to their members for the
$100 membership fee including consulting on policies and things like this. It’s
a lot better use of funds to just go through them than to pay our retainers and
billable hours to a Maryland attorney, IMHO. It would be good to
have the motion withdrawn or voted down so that a policy committee could be put
together and put the policies together to have Maryland Nonprofits review and
offer changes to.
Dragan
Rose 11:47
AM
Could
we get some clarification on Motion 11-06-2019 1A1? Does a "No" vote
require us to hire a lawyer? Not what it could mean, what is DOES mean. I want
to understand exactly what the outcome of each of the votes are.
[2 replies Last reply 2019-12-01 12:56 PM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
No on this puts the language back to 1A. Honestly, if you don’t want
any of it, voting no as each amendment and the original come up would do that. If
you want to change the language to investigate hiring attorneys and not make
any decisions on that until the annual meeting, then vote yes on 1A1. If
you want to hire an attorney to draft the language then vote yes on 1A and no
on 1A1. If you want to do something else, you can actually move to
amend after this amendment is voted on too.
Dragan Rose 2 years ago
Okay, thanks.
Judy
Mitchell 11:49
AM
A
No vote, if the amendment is defeated, means we return to the original motion
where the language does require us to hire a lawyer.
[1 reply Last reply 2019-12-01 12:36 PM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
See my response to Sarah
Betsy
R. Marks 11:52
AM
If
by some chance we defeat this amendment, it's possible we will obligate the ICG
to HIRE a lawyer.
This
is an amendment to the original motion. If we don't change the language of the
original motion, and that motion passes, we're required to hire.Are
you sure you want to risk what could easily become an expense of tens of
thousands of dollars?
Good
lawyers in Maryland are $400/hour or more. That seems like playing roulette
with the ICG's finances. It took us years to build the balance we have now.
Seems like a shame to see it all spent in one place, for lawyers' fees.
But
if we'd rather spend our money on the legal profession instead of supporting
our art and artists, I guess that's what we'll have to do.
I
intend to vote yes on the amendment, on the off chance there aren't enough
votes to defeat the motion as a whole.
Regards,
Betsy
R. Marks
Silicon Web--
Betsy R. Marks
www.hawkeswood.com
Mera Rose 12:01 PM
If this language fails, then it defaults to 1A, if that language fails, then it
defaults to 1.
Mera Rose 12:26 PM
And honestly, I don’t see why there is an insistence that we hire an attorney
to do it. I mean, there’s tons of draft templates out there that are
cheap or free that we could create a committee to finalize, and then send them
to Paddy Morton with Maryland Nonprofits to make sure that we’re 100%
compliant. A lot cheaper, a lot faster, and gets the whole thing
done.
I
mean, let’s just be realistic here. Pushing out the dates into
infinity to “investigate” it just looks like avoidance behavior, and saying
that spending $100 on Maryland Nonprofits and either using their templates or
resources and attorney or $100 for legal zoom or some other template service
(assuming that any of the legal professionals here don’t have templates already
that we could use) is going to bankrupt the ICG is obviously not the case. Hiring
a Maryland attorney at an hourly rate would be a horrible misuse of funds with
these two options available, IMHO.
And
- while I understand that several of you may not think that this is important,
our members don’t agree. Preliminary graphs from the survey below
(these may change as the survey isn’t closed yet, but it gives an idea of the
trend right now. And the last one is just to remind everyone on all sides of
this issue that tone is important.)
Jacalyn
Boggs 12:26
PM
Fear tactics when 1. This is something so simple and fast I literally had a
lawyer do it for me already at no cost so no, it won’t bankrupt us and 2. We
have the simple option of Maryland Nonprofits for a whopping $100?
This
is a bit ridiculous. I’m literally just waiting for us to be signed on with
them at this point so I can contact them about several things. Including this
specific motion. Have y’all a nice day.
Judy
Mitchell 12:32
PM
Exactly,
Mera, we don't need to hire a lawyer. Kevin pointed
that out a while ago. But the original motion is worded to obligate the icg to do just that. That's why i
was trying to amend it to say investigate TO hire instead of AND hire, but you
two wouldn't listen. This c whike thing should have
been scrapped when you found the nonprofit group, but you didn't. Now we have to
vote, and if we end up with the original then we HAVE to hire someone.
Mera Rose 12:40 PM
Um, I wasn’t involved in Jacalyn’s motion. I’ve been trying to put
out there that there is a better way to do this without having to go through
all of this. I was a paralegal and I know what the hourly rates are. It’s
a gross misuse of funds. I agree that the policies need to be made,
but I don’t agree with “either side” on the approach at the moment. And
I don’t control withdrawing a motion - I can’t. The motion to
withdraw has to come from the original mover. I’ve been trying to
show this through multiple emails. Please, everyone, stop assigning
motives to each other. It doesn’t help anything get done.
Betsy
R. Marks 1:06
PM
As
a reminder: this is the text of the original unamended motion:
Motion
# 11-6-2019-1: motion for The ICG Board to hire an international lawyer to
draft a. A code of conduct b. A non-discrimination policy c. An anti-harassment
policy to be received no later than 31 December 2019 so that a vote can be
completed no later than 31 January 2020.15 day discussion period ends November
21, 2019 at 4:45pm. 15 day voting period to run from 4:45pm Nov 21, 2019 to Dec
6, 2019.Again: should my amendment be defeated and the subsequent amendment
also be defeated, this is the original motion on which we will vote:
Motion
# 11-6-2019-1: motion for The ICG Board to hire an international lawyer to
draft a. A code of conduct b. A non-discrimination policy c. An anti-harassment
policy to be received no later than 31 December 2019 so that a vote can be
completed no later than 31 January 2020.
15
day discussion period ends November 21, 2019 at 4:45pm. 15 day voting period to
run from 4:45pm Nov 21, 2019 to Dec 6, 2019.
Seconded
by Dragan Rose.
Dragan
Rose 1:07
PM
Thanks
Betsy, can I withdraw my second?
1:09
I
want the code of conduct, but I am uncomfortable with forcing us to hire a
lawyer without using other resources first.
Dragan
Rose 1:13
PM
Maryland
does have a large amount of resources for non-profits. Mera's
been on the ball about reaching out to Maryland Non-profit network for help.
Would this be a way to address the concerns about taking action instead of
sitting on things until everyone forgets or we have a crisis staring us in the
face?
[3 replies Last reply 2019-12-01 1:16 PM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
All we have to do is pay them. Literally waiting to hear the check has been
sent. It’s why I asked last week.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
I thought that’s why you asked. Lol.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
I’m pretty sure EVERYONE realized it. Pretty obvious that was the way to go for
a while now. But since we haven’t paid them yet, we are still stuck. But with
this legislation passed, it allows us to pay them since we are having problem
getting that taken care of quickly.
Mera Rose 1:14 PM
It would absolutely be the way to address it Sarah, but unfortunately the
original mover has to be the one to withdraw.
[6 replies Last reply 2019-12-01 1:26 PM]
Dragan Rose 2 years ago
Fair enough.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Yeah and it’s just not possible if we haven’t paid Maryland Nonprofits.
Hopefully we can make that happen.
Dragan Rose 2 years ago
I agree.
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
The is currently a motion on the floor
concerning the expenditure of funds to do so.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Yes. And hopefully it will pass so we can use Maryland Nonprofits to do this.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
And she just confirmed that she isn’t going to withdraw the original motion on
11-6-2019-1 until Maryland Nonprofits is paid and a policy committee is
appointed.
Dragan
Rose 1:17
PM
I
have been tracking down other resources for Costume Con and the GCFCG. If I
find anything else that can help I will share it with everyone.
Mera Rose 1:18 PM
So essentially, what I’m understanding is that Jacalyn intends to withdraw the
entire motion if Maryland Nonprofits is paid. So the second that we
have a definite on that being done... well, lol, the clock will have
run out and this motion will have either been voted through or voted down. Jeez. @Pierre
Pettinger Any methods to speed the Maryland Nonprofits issue? I
had already done a 7 day objection period before Jeanine insisted it must be
moved and seconded to add to the budget for 2019. Does that help at
all? Motion to accelerate maybe?
Jacalyn
Boggs 1:18
PM
If Pierre says we can motion together accelerate consider this my moving to do
so.
Mera Rose 1:19 PM
I’m assuming, Jacalyn, that you’re not going to withdraw until you know that
Maryland Nonprofits is paid from your statements. Correct?
[1 reply Last reply 2019-12-01 1:20 PM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Correct. At this point we need to hire a lawyer. If we pay Maryland nonprofits
that’s takes care of that. Easy enough. So I’m just gonna
sit and wait. I had hoped it would have been taken care of last week.
Merrily 1:22 PM
So is this motion tabled until the budget and approval for the nonprofit
resources goes through all the proper procedural steps?
[1 reply Last reply 2019-12-01 1:24 PM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
No. I think we are stuck in a waiting game. However we’ve asked Pierre about
expediting the budgetary query.
Mera Rose 1:24 PM
No, the 1A1 amendment is in the process of voting and can’t be tabled at this
point.
Mera Rose 1:27 PM
I’ve reached out to Pierre for assistance.
[6 replies Last reply 2019-12-01 1:42 PM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
I have a brand new grand baby to indoctrinate to the glory of Glitziana. If he comes in and says we can expedite this,
text me and I will happily make the motion. Seriously. I’m all in and ready to
make this happen.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Congratulations!!!
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Thanks. She’s perfect in every way and beautiful at just over 12 hours old. And
she’s going to be an amazing costumer some day. 4th
generation!!! I am in love with her so much. December is the best month of
2019. :)
Dragan Rose 2 years ago
Woot!!! Congrats, hope everyone is doing well
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Tired. Induction was hard. Took all weekend. We are all too tired!!! Didn’t
start off the year thinking I would fall in love, but there you go. Here’s a
baby photo to make everyone swoon. Lol her name is Magnolia. :)
expect her to take the world by storm.
Mera Rose 2:00 PM
Pierre’s guidance on this follows:
Hi,
Mera,
First, I
think we need to rethink exactly how we set up these discussion groups. We have
so many different discussions going on that it is difficult to follow.
As
to these motions, as I read them (and from your comments you reading them the
same way).
If
1A1 passes, 1A would require the Finance Committee to obtain three quotes for
hiring a lawyer, but those quotes would be used to discuss the possibilities of
hiring a lawyer and will not obligate the ICG to hire one.
If
1A1 fails, then motion 1A remains unchanged. 1A requires the hiring of a lawyer,
so if it passes (unchanged by 1A1) we would be required to hire a lawyer. If it
fails, we default to the original language of 1.
If
1A fails we default back to the original language of the motion and we are
required to hire a lawyer if 1 passes. .
If
1 fails (irregardless of the success or failures of
1A or 1A1) then we are back to where we started and we are not required to
obtain quotes or hire a lawyer. (which if the motion to modify the budget to
join the Maryland Nonprofit passes would allow us to pursue these goals through
them)
If
1 passes without modification from 1A1 we are required to hire a lawyer.
Hope
this helps. As I said, you obviously understand this in the same way.
Pierre
—
Those who fail to learn history
Are doomed to repeat it.
Those who fail to learn history correctly --
Why, they are simple doomed.
Achem Dro'hm "The
Illusion of Historical Fact."
-- CY 4971
[1 reply Last reply 2019-12-01 2:02 PM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
It would help if stuff stayed threaded too
Mera Rose 2:08 PM
There is a new channel #open-discussion-communications. The
purpose of the group is specifically to discuss how to manage communications at
this time. BoD and members are invited and
encouraged to participate. This is not a formal committee and is
only to promote the exchanging of ideas. Civil discourse only..
Jeanine
Swick 2:23
PM
Not
being snarky here. But please will people keep it only to discussing
communications, If it is not related to that subject put it in #random or
the appropriate channel.
Mera Rose 2:37 PM
From Pierre: (clarifying on withdrawal)
Technically,
no one can withdraw it. It belongs to the body. Since voting on 1A1 has begun,
no other action can begin until that vote is resolved.
Once
1A1 passes or fails, someone could make a motion to table indefinitely. This
would kill it.
If
it is tabled indefinitely, no one could move this specific motion again, at
least for some period of time (an undefined amount. I would say at least
several months.) The topic could be addressed differently.So,
if
they would like to kill it, finish the current vote. Immediately move to table
indefinitely (must be seconded). This motion is not debatable so you would
restate it, then move to an immediate vote.
Pierre--
Those who fail to learn history
Are doomed to repeat it.
Those who fail to learn history correctly --
Why, they are simple doomed.
Achem Dro'hm "The Illusion
of Historical Fact."
-- CY 4971
So
there’s the guidance from Pierre. If I can also offer an option,
vote down the amendment so that the discussion period on 1A restarts, that will
put 1A available to amend or table. Either amend it and restart the
clock, or table it. Either way, the vote on Maryland Nonprofits can
occur before the voting on 1A would occur, which would allow the motioner to request the withdrawal of the motion with a 5
day objection period.
Byron
Connell 4:58
PM
Once
again, I can find neither the text of the motion we're voting on or the polling
place. Where are these on Slack? I'm totally lost.
Mera Rose 7:16 PM
A new channel called #polls was set up to make them easier to find. The
text of the motion and amendments is in
