Messages in ICG #boardofdirectors (Slack) 2019-09-17>
2019-09-16
Jacalyn
Boggs 8:25
AM
We still have a point of information as requested by @Betsy R.
Marks and I want an answer to it from the parliamentarian.
Judy
Mitchell 8:37
AM
IMO (fwiw), regarding whether the BoD
channel is open or closed, the fact that no one has noticed for 2 years as
Jacalyn said piints to two things 1) the slack has
been so little used by the members that they didn't notice and/or 2) they
didn't care. Really most members don't want to hear all the boring
nattering that goes on in genetal Bod meetings, as
frankly when something comes up (like now) that someone is concerned enough to follow
as had something useful to say i say let them! We're
not a fortune 500 Board. We dint have that many people who will pop up and
engage and if they do, even if they aren't the "official rep of
record" like Betsy, they could have valuable this to say. Making them only
go through they're rep is clunky when things are happening fast and it's like
playing telephone where ideas get garbled.So i say
keep it open and dont worry if someone speaks up that
isn't on the board, we might learn something important from it. If its just noise we can shush them.
[62 replies Last reply 2019-09-28 9:17
AM]
Marianne Pease 3 years ago
I completely agree. Furthermore, people who aren't interested in bod stuff
won't even join the channel.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
I still want an answer. The fact no one noticed or cared for two years is a
problem if the standing rules are decided to mean that it is required. I’m
ambivalent on if people are here or not looking, but I am very interested in
knowing if we were incorrect. My reading of the standing rule is not
that it is required to be open, but there does need to be discussion. That room
was open for two years and I don’t recall if there was discussion or not.
However there definitely wasn’t discussion in changing it. I also
think that it brings up a point of how do we disseminate information to our
members and what do they want, which is something that should be
assessed. Either it was wrong to create the private BOD channel in the
first place, which is a problem. Or it was wrong to change things with zero
discussion as a knee-jerk reaction to a point of information. Either
way, I want to know where the fault lies. And I also think we need to have
a serious conversation with how do we get information to the membership. Aurora
Celeste has a good point in asking about things, and she seemed open to
discussing methods of sharing information and not necessarily being in the BOD
channel. I spent a lot of years when I wasn’t near a chapter just idling
reading what was on yahoo (but not the BOD) and the website to stay up to date.
It wasn’t especially effective but it met my needs at the time. We
do need to make sure we are meeting the needs of the membership.
Elaine 3 years ago
Pierre has responded. We MUST keep it open to the Membership at large
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
So even if it’s discussed we cannot close it?
Elaine 3 years ago
Pierre and Sandy Pettinger costumrs@radiks.net [ICG-BOD]
<ICG-BOD@yahoogroups.com>
8:45 AM (2 minutes ago)
to ICG-BODBetsy,
Your reading is correct. The on-line BOD meeting and forum must be public
unless the Board of Directors passes a specific motion to make it private.
For information, the public nature of the BOD was debated a decade or more ago
and the definitive sense of the membership (and by that I mean an overwhelming
majority) of the memberships wanted the BOD public.
Pierre E. Pettinger, JR.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
Because if so, we’ve been at fault for two years and that’s a problem
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
Ok so it doesn’t HAVE to be public, but we need to discuss and make a motion to
make it private
Elaine 3 years ago
Unless the Yahoo! group was closed to the Membership at large, which is where
the 'official' meeting has been until the vote to move to Slack, then no, we
are not at fault.
Elaine 3 years ago
Rather, in defaault
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
Well we voted in March to move to slack and at the time it was private. No one
brought this up then. That sets a precedence that private was by inference OK
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
But there was a lack of discussion about it and that seems bad
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
There was most definitely a failing
Elaine 3 years ago
beating Artax again, the vote may have been made, but
it wasn't announced (I didn't know about it until you brought it up), so it
wasn't an official move until October 1. Thus, we are staying (barely) within
the SR requirements
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
And with the new mode of communication, I definitely think that we should
discuss with the membership what they most like to see. Especially since a
decade is a bit of time and opinions/desired change. Especially with
growth. But there was a vote. It should have been in the minutes. And the
vote sets a precedent and I think there definitely needs to be discussion on
this matter, and, quite possibly, a public apology to the membership if that is
deemed necessary.
Elaine 3 years ago
You are not incorrect there
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
Exactly. Which is why I was stressing that we needed to find out from the
parliamentarian what his thoughts are.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
Then we would know where the fault is, what discussion needed to happen, and if
we might be needing to make an apology to the membership.
Elaine 3 years ago
He did respond to the email query, and I copy/pasted above
Elaine 3 years ago
Repasted in the main channel
Elaine 3 years ago
(with the entirety of the message this time)
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
As far as having the board open or closed, I don’t care. By law it does not
need to be open, and idk why anyone would want to rifle through all these
messages if they don’t have to. But if people wanted to, more power
to them. I just wanted to know where the wrong
was. Absolutely no one said anything about it being closed until
Friday, and even that person gave the matter further thought. But between that
silence on the matter for two years and a vote to move this way, there was a
whole lot of silence. I don’t know if I like the fact that this simply carried
on. How long would that have continued if one member had not spoken up?
Marianne Pease 3 years ago
Likely until someone else noticed the standing rule and wanted to see what the BoD was doing.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
That is a huge liability concern. Though with voting to move to slack and no
one mentioning that it was private and discussing a problem with that, the
board definitely made an unspoken statement that they were OK with a private
channel which is also in lines with the standing rule.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
And we still find ourselves in a cross hairs of failure to abide by the
standing rules by discussing this matter.
Marianne Pease 3 years ago
I apologize for the fact that it was locked. I did not intend to violate our
standing rules. While we approved slack back then, our primary means of
discussion was still on Yahoo and no one gave it much thought. Now that there's
more of a push to be here, the error was noticed and immediately rectified.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
Well except with a move to new communication methods, there is room to have a discussion
on policy changes and probably this signals how much we need to actually do
that.
Marianne Pease 3 years ago
I'm always happy to entertain motions made to the board.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
As stated by Pierre, the BOD can opt to close the BOD channel.
Marianne Pease 3 years ago
We could. You can make a motion to do so if you want.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
And I am actually now curious what the membership actually wants their best
form of communication to be. By his own statement, it was decided quite a while
ago why it was chosen to be open and I’m curious how the membership feels
now. Do they even care? Perhaps, but with changing times there is
likely a good place to ask them how best they want to know the goings on. If
no one is reading the BOD stuff anyway, then they aren’t getting the info they
may need. I’m more curious about ensuring we meet their needs for
communication.
Also sent to the channel
Jeanine Swick 3 years ago
I have been off line all day so I have a bit of catching up to do here. My
comment relating to the Standing Rules is that they are not followed very
closely. It is a constant battle for me to get chapters to do their reports and
updates as stated there. There are several chapters who don't report (or even
check in), have missing member information, do not submit a list of officers
before the annual meeting and the list goes on. I would like to see a couple
rules posted and discussed every month to get so that the chapters understand
what is required of them.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
I think this is a fair comment. maybe we should slate it as a point
of discussion. I would support doing this. Maybe it's
also time to look at the standing rules and make sure that we all understand
them and that they are still pertinent, especially going to new mediums and the
like. It is entirely possible some of the standing rules need a refresher. At
the very least WE seem to need a refresher!
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
And meanwhile, if there's something I can do to support your efforts, let me
know. Your job is an important one!
Jeanine Swick 3 years ago
I really doubt that most of the membership has read them or understand what is
in the rules. Once we are done with the zGuidelines
this can be brought forward again. Otherwise it will only confuse the issue.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
Yeah. I would say we need to table this until the guideliness are done. This is messy enough.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
So part of the tech plan that the tech committee will be working on over the
next few months, including making a beta site to test out, is a chapter and
membership database with a form that allows them to submit their reports and
update membership info on the website. That will automatically
notify them every month when they are due and continue sending notifications
daily until they log in. This is part of what I’ve been working on
since CostumeCon, is trying to automate some of these
processes to reduce your workload Jeanine and do some of the hounding for
you. Lol
Judy Mitchell 2 years ago
Is this just for treasurers or also for membership access & renewals? I was
a bit confused at the annual meeting, and since you were trying not to allow
questions or discussions at that time, i couldn't
ask.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
I am going to be reviewing the hosting this week for the tech committee’s
website.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
So hopefully this will be info going in for budgeting there. :)
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
But I know one of the tech committee things is to find a way, with the
treasurer, to streamline membership renewals.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
It was less about disallowing questions and trying to get through the volume of
info we wanted to present so that everyone could discuss it in open forum
(here, yahoo groups) over the year before next CostumeCon
and give all their input. We welcome everyone’s input, this was just
a starting point to spur discussion.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
So, it’s actually going to be for everyone to manage their memberships and
info, but also for chapter officers to update membership info for those not
online, submit their reports, minutes, treasurers reports, and possibly
facilitate payments through a central method.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
We can include any other functionality that would be helpful to you or chapter
officers also.
Judy Mitchell 2 years ago
My concern is that by making it open for members to manage their own dues, you
are circumventing the role of chapter treasurer. I'm against that.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Which is why we need to work with the ICG treasurer in order to do this
right. At the time the ICG was created, it was not easy to have a
way for members to easily pay their dues. There’s so much automation
now, making it easier to pay would be optimal. The problem is, while some
chapters have tried to do so, others have very much not done
so. This needs to be rectified, and we need to discover how we can
better do this with our treasurer. I don’t want to circumvent the treasurer as
that is actually illegal. However, I want to streamline treasurer
duties so it is easier for their duties to be fulfilled. This is something we
need their input on. I know it’s a constant struggle. It shouldn’t
be. It’s 2019 and I say let’s find what will work best and allow
ourselves to help out the treasurer by using available technology.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
But as a member of the tech committee and de facto web admin, I can and will
refuse to move forward with any form of technology not openly discussed and without
the agreement of the treasurer.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Idk if this helps you, Judy, but I definitely hope it helps our far too busy
ICG treasurer. My personal opinion is she deserves Sainthood. Her task is a
difficult one. I’ve been treasurer and work treasury staff for a number of
nonprofits and it is too much work for too much risk and not enough
recognition.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
No, I don’t think anyone is trying make sure they manage their own dues and
that hasn’t been suggested. Just that they can update their
information (name changes, mailing address, etc) so
it goes directly to the database. Being able to pay dues would be
something that would be done by chapter treasurers and that could be done
through the website directly to the ICG account by setting it up as an option
when they submit their monthly reports.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Meaning, the chapter dues, not individual member dues.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
We definitely need to make things easier for member information.
Also sent to the channel
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
We have a PayPal account for receiving dues payments and it is linked to our
accounts at Digital Federal Credit Union. The only problem has been is that
depending on how the payment is made we get slapped with the PayPal fee even
though we are listed as a non-profit. No policy for dealing with the fee was
put in place when it was first set up long before I became treasurer. My
job is not that difficult as I have a system in place for it. Chapters changing
the reporting spread sheet from the required format or insisting on
sending .pdf files that I specifically have asked them not to send is the
biggest issue outside of not doing the monthly report. I spend one day a month
on doing the updates and that is not a big deal to me.Our
biggest problem is that we approve new chapters but they get no support
afterwards. Some make it as a chapter becoming very active and
others struggle and end up fading away. The three newest chapters have not been
heard from in almost a year. We should be focusing on retaining the new
chapters and finding out what they are in need of to keep things going. I will
have to look up how many chapters joined the ICG and faded away within a few
years. Was it because they needed help but didn't know who to ask or was it for
other reasons That we will never know?
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
I didn't know you had a paypal. I wonder what can be
done about the fee. I feel like there should be something in place for that,
but heck if I know what it is. I just want to find some way to make things easy
for members dues to get to you as I know there's a
chapter or two that is not so good.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Also, I think you bring up a good point about retention. I would
like to find out why some chapters fade away. Are they not getting
something they need? Is this the wrong group for them? Are they going
elsewhere? Do interests change? If we cannot retain membership, we will drift
away in to obscurity and this is not something I want to see happen.
Vicky Assarattanakul 2 years ago
I can only speak for MACS, but in our case, our fading away/dissipating numbers
had nothing to do with the ICG, but internal issues. I don't know for sure, but
I think MNSOC had similar issues.
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
It would bei teresting to
know what happened. MNSOC bff ad over a hundrednnembers at one point. Iamontheir
FB page and while it isn't super active they still state they are part of the
ICG in their about section. I try to join all the chapter FB pages to keep up
on what they are doing. I am super impressed with all the activities the TTCG
are doing, I wish I had a reason to be in their area on the west coast so I
could go to one of their events. Vicky, they could be a possible feature
article in the newsletter. They are doing something right.
Vicky Assarattanakul 2 years ago
That is a great idea to feature TTCG in the newsletter, thank you!
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Omg I want to fly to TTCG just to visit them. They are amazing! I’d we could
bottle that...
Crescentia 2 years ago
So, Crescentia Volz from CGL (Lancaster, PA). I'd like to chime in on
"what happened" to our chapter. We haven't completely
faded away, but we're pretty much there (trying to get us revived, though). For
us it's been a matter of life getting in the way, and all of us being busy, and
forgetting to renew our memberships, and such. Part of it, too, is that I am
fairly new to the area, so I'm not really networked in, but I feel I'm getting
there. The few other members who have been involved haven't been very motivated
to do much with regards to the Chapter, and the few times we've tried to get
together to do events our schedules haven't meshed. Honestly, I think I've been
a pretty poor leader, but there also hasn't been anyone else who wanted to step
up to lead, either. We all want to be a part of it, but don't have the
motivation or time to devote to actually pushing the group to come together, or
plan things.
Dawn McKechnie 2 years ago
Because we get don't benefit from the non-profit status or any discounts with
U.S. retailers the Canadian chapter derives virtually no benefit to being part
of the ICG. We exist merely to support the ideals promoted by the organization.
I do agree there could be more support, even for some long time chapters. For
example the Fibre Fantasy Artists now has a
completely new president who based on his own self reporting has been given no
information ( for example; how to run the chapter or join the lists. )
Also sent to the channel
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
I set the membership reporting to Sebastian and the new treasurer. To date I
have not heard anything from the chapter. He should have announced to the BoD that the chapter elected a new president and other
officers and passed all that information along
Marianne Pease 3 years ago
I completely agree. Furthermore, people who aren't interested in bod stuff
won't even join the channel.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
I still want an answer. The fact no one noticed or cared for two years is a
problem if the standing rules are decided to mean that it is required. I’m
ambivalent on if people are here or not looking, but I am very interested in
knowing if we were incorrect. My reading of the standing rule is not
that it is required to be open, but there does need to be discussion. That room
was open for two years and I don’t recall if there was discussion or not.
However there definitely wasn’t discussion in changing it. I also
think that it brings up a point of how do we disseminate information to our
members and what do they want, which is something that should be
assessed. Either it was wrong to create the private BOD channel in the
first place, which is a problem. Or it was wrong to change things with zero
discussion as a knee-jerk reaction to a point of information. Either
way, I want to know where the fault lies. And I also think we need to have
a serious conversation with how do we get information to the membership. Aurora
Celeste has a good point in asking about things, and she seemed open to
discussing methods of sharing information and not necessarily being in the BOD
channel. I spent a lot of years when I wasn’t near a chapter just idling
reading what was on yahoo (but not the BOD) and the website to stay up to date.
It wasn’t especially effective but it met my needs at the time. We
do need to make sure we are meeting the needs of the membership.
Elaine 3 years ago
Pierre has responded. We MUST keep it open to the Membership at large
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
So even if it’s discussed we cannot close it?
Elaine 3 years ago
Pierre and Sandy Pettinger costumrs@radiks.net [ICG-BOD]
<ICG-BOD@yahoogroups.com>
8:45 AM (2 minutes ago)
to ICG-BODBetsy,
Your reading is correct. The on-line BOD meeting and forum must be public
unless the Board of Directors passes a specific motion to make it private.
For information, the public nature of the BOD was debated a decade or more ago
and the definitive sense of the membership (and by that I mean an overwhelming
majority) of the memberships wanted the BOD public.
Pierre E. Pettinger, JR.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
Because if so, we’ve been at fault for two years and that’s a problem
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
Ok so it doesn’t HAVE to be public, but we need to discuss and make a motion to
make it private
Elaine 3 years ago
Unless the Yahoo! group was closed to the Membership at large, which is where
the 'official' meeting has been until the vote to move to Slack, then no, we
are not at fault.
Elaine 3 years ago
Rather, in defaault
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
Well we voted in March to move to slack and at the time it was private. No one
brought this up then. That sets a precedence that private was by inference OK
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
But there was a lack of discussion about it and that seems bad
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
There was most definitely a failing
Elaine 3 years ago
beating Artax again, the vote may have been made, but
it wasn't announced (I didn't know about it until you brought it up), so it
wasn't an official move until October 1. Thus, we are staying (barely) within
the SR requirements
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
And with the new mode of communication, I definitely think that we should
discuss with the membership what they most like to see. Especially since a
decade is a bit of time and opinions/desired change. Especially with
growth. But there was a vote. It should have been in the minutes. And the
vote sets a precedent and I think there definitely needs to be discussion on
this matter, and, quite possibly, a public apology to the membership if that is
deemed necessary.
Elaine 3 years ago
You are not incorrect there
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
Exactly. Which is why I was stressing that we needed to find out from the
parliamentarian what his thoughts are.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
Then we would know where the fault is, what discussion needed to happen, and if
we might be needing to make an apology to the membership.
Elaine 3 years ago
He did respond to the email query, and I copy/pasted above
Elaine 3 years ago
Repasted in the main channel
Elaine 3 years ago
(with the entirety of the message this time)
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
As far as having the board open or closed, I don’t care. By law it does not
need to be open, and idk why anyone would want to rifle through all these messages
if they don’t have to. But if people wanted to, more power to
them. I just wanted to know where the wrong
was. Absolutely no one said anything about it being closed until
Friday, and even that person gave the matter further thought. But between that
silence on the matter for two years and a vote to move this way, there was a
whole lot of silence. I don’t know if I like the fact that this simply carried
on. How long would that have continued if one member had not spoken up?
Marianne Pease 3 years ago
Likely until someone else noticed the standing rule and wanted to see what the BoD was doing.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
That is a huge liability concern. Though with voting to move to slack and no
one mentioning that it was private and discussing a problem with that, the
board definitely made an unspoken statement that they were OK with a private
channel which is also in lines with the standing rule.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
And we still find ourselves in a cross hairs of failure to abide by the
standing rules by discussing this matter.
Marianne Pease 3 years ago
I apologize for the fact that it was locked. I did not intend to violate our
standing rules. While we approved slack back then, our primary means of
discussion was still on Yahoo and no one gave it much thought. Now that there's
more of a push to be here, the error was noticed and immediately rectified.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
Well except with a move to new communication methods, there is room to have a
discussion on policy changes and probably this signals how much we need to
actually do that.
Marianne Pease 3 years ago
I'm always happy to entertain motions made to the board.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
As stated by Pierre, the BOD can opt to close the BOD channel.
Marianne Pease 3 years ago
We could. You can make a motion to do so if you want.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
And I am actually now curious what the membership actually wants their best
form of communication to be. By his own statement, it was decided quite a while
ago why it was chosen to be open and I’m curious how the membership feels
now. Do they even care? Perhaps, but with changing times there is
likely a good place to ask them how best they want to know the goings
on. If no one is reading the BOD stuff anyway, then they aren’t
getting the info they may need. I’m more curious about ensuring we meet their
needs for communication.
Also sent to the channel
Jeanine Swick 3 years ago
I have been off line all day so I have a bit of catching up to do here. My
comment relating to the Standing Rules is that they are not followed very
closely. It is a constant battle for me to get chapters to do their reports and
updates as stated there. There are several chapters who don't report (or even
check in), have missing member information, do not submit a list of officers
before the annual meeting and the list goes on. I would like to see a couple
rules posted and discussed every month to get so that the chapters understand
what is required of them.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
I think this is a fair comment. maybe we should slate it as a point
of discussion. I would support doing this. Maybe it's
also time to look at the standing rules and make sure that we all understand
them and that they are still pertinent, especially going to new mediums and the
like. It is entirely possible some of the standing rules need a refresher. At
the very least WE seem to need a refresher!
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
And meanwhile, if there's something I can do to support your efforts, let me
know. Your job is an important one!
Jeanine Swick 3 years ago
I really doubt that most of the membership has read them or understand what is
in the rules. Once we are done with the zGuidelines
this can be brought forward again. Otherwise it will only confuse the issue.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
Yeah. I would say we need to table this until the guideliness are done. This is messy enough.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
So part of the tech plan that the tech committee will be working on over the
next few months, including making a beta site to test out, is a chapter and
membership database with a form that allows them to submit their reports and
update membership info on the website. That will automatically
notify them every month when they are due and continue sending notifications
daily until they log in. This is part of what I’ve been working on
since CostumeCon, is trying to automate some of these
processes to reduce your workload Jeanine and do some of the hounding for
you. Lol
Judy Mitchell 2 years ago
Is this just for treasurers or also for membership access & renewals? I was
a bit confused at the annual meeting, and since you were trying not to allow
questions or discussions at that time, i couldn't
ask.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
I am going to be reviewing the hosting this week for the tech committee’s
website.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
So hopefully this will be info going in for budgeting there. :)
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
But I know one of the tech committee things is to find a way, with the
treasurer, to streamline membership renewals.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
It was less about disallowing questions and trying to get through the volume of
info we wanted to present so that everyone could discuss it in open forum
(here, yahoo groups) over the year before next CostumeCon
and give all their input. We welcome everyone’s input, this was just
a starting point to spur discussion.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
So, it’s actually going to be for everyone to manage their memberships and
info, but also for chapter officers to update membership info for those not
online, submit their reports, minutes, treasurers reports, and possibly
facilitate payments through a central method.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
We can include any other functionality that would be helpful to you or chapter
officers also.
Judy Mitchell 2 years ago
My concern is that by making it open for members to manage their own dues, you
are circumventing the role of chapter treasurer. I'm against that.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Which is why we need to work with the ICG treasurer in order to do this
right. At the time the ICG was created, it was not easy to have a
way for members to easily pay their dues. There’s so much automation
now, making it easier to pay would be optimal. The problem is, while some
chapters have tried to do so, others have very much not done
so. This needs to be rectified, and we need to discover how we can
better do this with our treasurer. I don’t want to circumvent the treasurer as
that is actually illegal. However, I want to streamline treasurer
duties so it is easier for their duties to be fulfilled. This is something we
need their input on. I know it’s a constant struggle. It shouldn’t
be. It’s 2019 and I say let’s find what will work best and allow
ourselves to help out the treasurer by using available technology.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
But as a member of the tech committee and de facto web admin, I can and will
refuse to move forward with any form of technology not openly discussed and
without the agreement of the treasurer.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Idk if this helps you, Judy, but I definitely hope it helps our far too busy
ICG treasurer. My personal opinion is she deserves Sainthood. Her task is a
difficult one. I’ve been treasurer and work treasury staff for a number of
nonprofits and it is too much work for too much risk and not enough
recognition.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
No, I don’t think anyone is trying make sure they manage their own dues and
that hasn’t been suggested. Just that they can update their
information (name changes, mailing address, etc) so
it goes directly to the database. Being able to pay dues would be
something that would be done by chapter treasurers and that could be done
through the website directly to the ICG account by setting it up as an option
when they submit their monthly reports.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Meaning, the chapter dues, not individual member dues.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
We definitely need to make things easier for member information.
Also sent to the channel
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
We have a PayPal account for receiving dues payments and it is linked to our
accounts at Digital Federal Credit Union. The only problem has been is that
depending on how the payment is made we get slapped with the PayPal fee even
though we are listed as a non-profit. No policy for dealing with the fee was
put in place when it was first set up long before I became treasurer.
My job is not that difficult as I have a system
in place for it. Chapters changing the reporting spread sheet from the required
format or insisting on sending .pdf files that I specifically have
asked them not to send is the biggest issue outside of not doing the monthly
report. I spend one day a month on doing the updates and that is not a big deal
to me.
Our biggest problem is that we approve new
chapters but they get no support afterwards. Some make it as a
chapter becoming very active and others struggle and end up fading
away. The three newest chapters have not been heard from in almost a year. We
should be focusing on retaining the new chapters and finding out what they are
in need of to keep things going. I will have to look up how many chapters
joined the ICG and faded away within a few years. Was it because they needed
help but didn't know who to ask or was it for other reasons That we will never
know?
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
I didn't know you had a paypal. I wonder what can be
done about the fee. I feel like there should be something in place for that,
but heck if I know what it is. I just want to find some way to make things easy
for members dues to get to you as I know there's a
chapter or two that is not so good.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Also, I think you bring up a good point about retention. I would
like to find out why some chapters fade away. Are they not getting
something they need? Is this the wrong group for them? Are they going
elsewhere? Do interests change? If we cannot retain membership, we will drift
away in to obscurity and this is not something I want to see happen.
Vicky Assarattanakul 2 years ago
I can only speak for MACS, but in our case, our fading away/dissipating numbers
had nothing to do with the ICG, but internal issues. I don't know for sure, but
I think MNSOC had similar issues.
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
It would bei teresting to
know what happened. MNSOC bff ad over a hundrednnembers at one point. Iamontheir
FB page and while it isn't super active they still state they are part of the
ICG in their about section. I try to join all the chapter FB pages to keep up
on what they are doing. I am super impressed with all the activities the TTCG
are doing, I wish I had a reason to be in their area on the west coast so I
could go to one of their events. Vicky, they could be a possible feature
article in the newsletter. They are doing something right.
Vicky Assarattanakul 2 years ago
That is a great idea to feature TTCG in the newsletter, thank you!
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Omg I want to fly to TTCG just to visit them. They are amazing! I’d we could
bottle that...
Crescentia 2 years ago
So, Crescentia Volz from CGL (Lancaster, PA). I'd like to chime in on
"what happened" to our chapter. We haven't completely
faded away, but we're pretty much there (trying to get us revived, though). For
us it's been a matter of life getting in the way, and all of us being busy, and
forgetting to renew our memberships, and such. Part of it, too, is that I am
fairly new to the area, so I'm not really networked in, but I feel I'm getting
there. The few other members who have been involved haven't been very motivated
to do much with regards to the Chapter, and the few times we've tried to get
together to do events our schedules haven't meshed. Honestly, I think I've been
a pretty poor leader, but there also hasn't been anyone else who wanted to step
up to lead, either. We all want to be a part of it, but don't have the
motivation or time to devote to actually pushing the group to come together, or
plan things.
Dawn McKechnie 2 years ago
Because we get don't benefit from the non-profit status or any discounts with
U.S. retailers the Canadian chapter derives virtually no benefit to being part
of the ICG. We exist merely to support the ideals promoted by the organization.
I do agree there could be more support, even for some long time chapters. For
example the Fibre Fantasy Artists now has a
completely new president who based on his own self reporting has been given no
information ( for example; how to run the chapter or join the lists. )
Also sent to the channel
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
I set the membership reporting to Sebastian and the new treasurer. To date I
have not heard anything from the chapter. He should have announced to the BoD that the chapter elected a new president and other
officers and passed all that information along so they could be gotten on
board.
Marianne Pease 2 years ago
We've gotten Etienne on here now and all situated! He expressed interest in
asking questions about the treasurer's job and I've added him to the chapter
treasurers channel you created.
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
Thank you.
g so they could be gotten on board.
Marianne Pease 2 years ago
We've gotten Etienne on here now and all situated! He expressed interest in
asking questions about the treasurer's job and I've added him to the chapter
treasurers channel you created.
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
Thank you.
Elaine 8:55 AM
Pierre and Sandy Pettinger costumrs@radiks.net [ICG-BOD]
<ICG-BOD@yahoogroups.com>
8:45 AM (10 minutes ago)
to ICG-BOD
Betsy,
Your reading is correct. The on-line BOD meeting and forum must be public
unless the Board of Directors passes a specific motion to make it private.
For information, the public nature of the BOD was debated a decade or more ago
and the definitive sense of the membership (and by that I mean an overwhelming
majority) of the memberships wanted the BOD public.
Pierre E. Pettinger, JR.
On 9/16/2019 6:26 AM, 'Betsy R. Marks' aramintamd@gmail.com [ICG-BOD]
wrote:
Hi
Pierre,
I'm
sorry, but I need a ruling on my interpretation of Standing Rule 28 B.
My
read is as follows: That the BOD list must be public, even if non-members aren't
allowed to post to it, and that this would be true regardless of the electronic
medium we choose to replace this mailing list (presently Slack).Please advise.
Has there been a successful vote to change that rule?
Thanks
for your help and clarity.
Betsy
R. Marks
President, Silicon Web Costumers' Guild
ICG BOD Alternate(Crossposting to Slack)--
Betsy R. Marks
www.hawkeswood.com
--
Those who fail to learn history
Are doomed to repeat it.
Those who fail to learn history correctly --
Why, they are simple doomed.Achem Dro'hm
"The
Illusion of Historical Fact."
-- CY 4971
__._,_.___
Posted by: Pierre and Sandy Pettinger <costumrs@radiks.net>
Reply via web post • Reply to
sender • Reply to
group • Start a New
Topic • Messages in this topic
(4)
--
This message sent via the International Costumers' Guild
Board of Director's Mailing List.
Betsy
R. Marks 9:57 AM
I would argue that while this communication tool was available, there wasn't a
directed movement to replace the Yahoo group until just within the last week.
When
I attended the Annual meeting at CC37, I had not yet been elected as SiW president. Kevin Roche, our BOD rep had a major travel
snafu and unfortunately missed the meeting. I didn't take notes in any official
capacity during the meeting and didn't want to report inaccurate information.The SIW election process ended at the start of
May, at which time we confirmed Elaine Sims in her continued role as primary
BOD rep. I stepped in to join the BOD as alternate (part of my official duty as
SiW president) and requested copies of the documents
that were presented during the meeting.
It
didn't come to light until just after WorldCon that I
wasn't on the Yahoo group, which was corrected as soon as the error was found
.I
hope this clears up any confusion regarding why it took so long to notice that
the ICG was operating out of compliance with our Standing Rules.
As
I have invested some 32 years in this organization and its smooth operation, I
was very concerned that there was a communication disconnect, since that's the
reason why I founded the ICG Newsletter back in 2002.Now, concerning the
proposed Guidelines: I respectfully request that we place a separate thread in
this channel for the current motion on the floor. As soon as I have my computer
downstairs open, I intend to add Merrily's
recommended adjustments and send my revised version of the Guidelines in as a
proposed amendment to the current proposed document.I've
already discussed this with Pierre, and such an amendment is in order.
If
you have any additional questions, please let me know.Thank
you for your time. And Marianne, MANY thanks for rectifying the problem so
quickly!
Until
we actually turn off the Yahoo group, I would recommend that we should probably
crosspost there, if possible, to ensure we don't have
any additional gaps I. Communication, or until we are absolutely certain
everyone who should be here is here.
More
soon,
Betsy
President, Silicon Web
ICG BOD Alternate
[40 replies Last reply 2019-09-18 10:46
AM]
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
Well we'd been trying to move off Yahoo for a while. There's been talk on the bod
over a couple of years about making the move complete. We voted in March to
just be done with it. I thought things were just quiet because summer is con
crunch and not much was happening. There's no "push this
week". That was just me trying to find out why anyone was actually posting
to the yahoo group when we had voted to leave it months ago. I'm not sure why
you were concerned with the yahoo group by Worldcon since we'd voted to move
off of it.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
But we need to actively be using this mode of communication as it is 1. what
was voted on and 2. Yahoo is next to impossible. I don't even attempt to open
those emails any more as they are unreadable. They get automatically
deleted.
Betsy R. Marks 3 years ago
All well and good, but it became quite clear really fast that there were a
number of people who didn't see anything posted to Slack and weren't aware of
the migration decision that was made at the meeting.This
is precisely why we need to consider crossposting or
make sure that everyone who's been added to this channel is actually on it and
receiving some sort of notification.Yeah, I agree
Yahoo's interface is terrible. That's why I'm looking to exit for my RunACC and other groups that remain there. However, until
we guarantee that all the members are on the same page (as it were) we can't
arbitrarily drop one in favor of the other or we're going to lose people (and
chapters) which I believe is the very last thing any of us want.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
The vote should have been in the minutes. If the minutes did not
include it, that's a problem with the secretary. If the minutes were
not read, that is the problem of the members who did not read
them. I have walked away from Yahoo Groups as of June since that was
what the vote said. I saw nothing until last week when a crate full of
unreadable emails started filling up my email and it was hiding my important
school emails from being seen. I've set my email to automatically delete
anything from yahoo groups because it was so bad. I may as well
"arbitrarily" not concern myself with something that is 1. unreadable
2. we've been trying to navigate away from for some time now and 3. voted to
move from six months ago. Especially since #1 in that list is "unreadable".
As it is such a nonfunctional method of communication, I will not be cross
posting. I suppose that means someone for whom it works will have to copy what
I say and I'll have to trust that it goes through correctly because I simply do
not have the time to deal with a nonfunctional service in order to try and
ascertain why it does not work. I suppose I could drive over to the
AOL offices and see my friends and tell them to fix the dang service, but I
doubt that would actually do anything except allow me to lunch with some
friends.
Betsy R. Marks 3 years ago
You are one individual in a group, as am I. My chapter is going through a
similar situation now, as we have over 60 members but no reliable way to reach
out to all of them.My concern is for the whole group.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
Well that was why we voted to not do it immediately, but to instead give a
couple of months to finish getting people moved to Slack. Most
people were already here. But it's past time to finalize this
move. And since multiple people have not been able to work with
Yahoo for a while, it's a good thing we are moving. My concern is
also for the whole group, which is why i voted yes to
moving off yahoo.
Betsy R. Marks 3 years ago
That's fine, but I will point out that Pierre responded on Yahoo, not here.
Betsy R. Marks 3 years ago
And with all due respect, until our Parliamentarian is a regular Slack user, we
need to make sure both bases are covered.
Jeanine Swick 3 years ago
Yes, it has been mentioned about finding an alternate to Yahoo over the years.
The one draw back has been how to retrieve and
archive everything that is in the Yahoo group and files section. What has been
done so far to get all of that moved to ?? location.
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
@Jeanine Swick I'm not sure what we can do about pulling all of that from
yahoo groups. Yahoo groups is such a complete nightmare/disaster right now, I
just do not know what we can do about archiving those.
Aurora Celeste 2 years ago
Pointing out that I'm not sure how members could read the
minutes. They are not available on the website. They've
not been posted in the general forum here that I can find. They
weren't put in the newsletter. They were put on the BoD list in a way that's not accessible to anyone who's not
already a member to read them. No one posted them in the ICG-D list
that the move was happening until I pointed out that they
hadn't. The point of these resources, and keeping the board meeting
open to everyone, is to check up on things like this when board reps change,
have an attack of life, or flake, but all the usual methods have been taken
from the membership without telling them where to go to find the actual
information. (edited)
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Well we only seem to publish minutes once a year due to the bod yahoo group
being open. I personally don’t think that’s a functional way to do it for the
general membership. Who really has the time to dedicate to reading the entirety
of that if they don’t have to. Summary minutes would be much better.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
And if we had proper minutes I could easily have them published to the website
which would be far more functional than the way things have been done with this
yahoo group bod list just being open for perusal. Since we don’t formalize the
meeting with the online manner, I believe summary minutes are even more valid.
If there were some sort of monthly minutes poster by a particular day, would
that be something desirable? At least then members would know what to search
the bod group for if it were left open.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Minutes could also be uploaded in here. However, by federal and state law,
there’s actually no requirement to open it. I personally like the
transparency + quick review of minutes to know how things are working and
appreciate that the ICG has always tried to do something for the membership,
even if it’s not really the easiest method to disseminate information.
Aurora Celeste 2 years ago
I was referring to the yearly minutes from the meeting. You said
that “If the minutes were not read, that is the problem of the members who did
not read them.” Where did you expect them to find these “minutes”
they should have read to get this information?
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
The board minutes are posted here in slack. I believe they got sent to the bod
group on yahoo but I seriously have had so many issues with them over the last
two years, but especially the last year, I haven’t bothered with the yahoo
group (and it was why I voted to get away from it).
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
If the vote is not included in the minutes, then that is a problem because it
was voted on.
Aurora Celeste 2 years ago
Thank you for proving my point. The minutes were posted in two
places that were not accessible to the general membership, and not on the
website where they were supposed to be, and you blame them for not reading
minutes they had no access to. Got it.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
The board had access to it. It was posted here and it was posted to yahoo. Idk
why they weren’t posted to the website but that will be rectified as soon as I
get to a computer to fix it. So yes, if board members chose not to read the
minutes, that is the fault of the board members who did not choose to read the
minutes. However, if the information is not in the minutes, which means that
even if the members of the board read said minutes, that’s a whole other
problem. But yes. There’s a problem that they are not on the
website. I have seen no reason on the bylaws or the standing rules to not have
them on the website. However, I’ve been out all day and was unaware they were
not on the website. This will be rectified.
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
In a private channel which has since been archived. All documents posted to
that channel should be added to this one or, better yet, posted to
the #general channel.
Also sent to the channel
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
As info: I just checked Slack and the archived board channel is no longer
available for viewing at all. I request that all documents posted there be
posted here, so that we don't lose our record of events and reporting.
This includes the draft minutes and the
five-year plan documents, as well as any activity or financial reports.
Also sent to the channel
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
This also includes any draft of the Guidelines under discussion.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
I can access it. Meanwhile there’s not that much conversation.
Aurora Celeste 2 years ago
I see our problem. You're making "members" understand as
"board members", I'm arguing for "ICG
members". The entire ICG has moved here, not just the BoD. No one informed the membership at large of
this move except verbally at the meeting during the vote, there was no way for
them to know about it if they could not attend as they had no access to the
minutes, as you've proven. The way this move has been handled is not
cool. (edited)
Elaine 2 years ago
Doesn't matter how much conversation there was, it needs to be posted. I
also cannot find the archived channel.
Elaine 2 years ago
Not saying it's not there, saying I can't find it.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
I can’t see the archived channel also. I thought the announcement
was made by the secretary of the meeting, and thought that I had just missed it
in the volume of email I get. I moved to checking posts here when
the reminder was given that we were supposed to be here, although I think I was
added to this channel when it was created initially.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
It is there. This is why I didn’t want to see it archived without any
discussion. It’s rough. Click on slackbot and select
the channel from the message it sent you. Give me a minute and I will send
screen caps
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Image from iOS
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
This one shows where to find it
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Here’s a bit of the discussion regarding the current motion that’s pertinent
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Image from iOS
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
There’s more in there. If anyone that cannot get in to it wants screen captures
I can do that while I’m driving to my next destination. I am busy working today
on another nonprofit’s social media and it’s involving a lot of travel
time. I will be available sporadically.
Elaine 2 years ago
thanks for doing that. Unfortunately, screen captures do not work with screen
readers. So there needs to be another solution for getting the discussion from
the closed channel into the open channel, or at least accessible to the
membership at Large.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Elaine - thank you for pointing out something that I need to make sure the BoD begins discussing - ALL of our communications need to
be accessible and in scalable or usable formats for those utilizing tech to
accommodate vision issues.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Yes, screen captures do not work for screen readers. However, it was to show
how you can do this and that it was available since multiple people said they
could not access the archived channel. Do with this knowledge what you
will. I was simply attempting multiple avenues of showing that 1.
You can access the channel and 2. How to do so. So armed with the
knowledge, it is up to board members to go and look for what they need from
that channel. As it is archived, I am not sure if anyone can be added to view
it, but I’m certainly willing to try to add anyone for viewing purposes that
want to view it. If not, I’m also happy to pull screen captures or transcribe
what is in the channel, though transcription is a lengthier process and would need
a greater amount of time to do. :)
(Versions
submitted in both MS Word and PDF)
[ICG
Guidelines-BLUELINE_TRACKING-OFF_BRM-MW.DOCX]
[ICG
Guidelines-BLUELINE_TRACKING-OFF_BRM-MW.PDF]
[ICG
Guidelines-BLUELINE_TRACKING-ON_BRM-MW.DOCX]
[ICG
Guidelines-BLUELINE_TRACKING-ON_BRM-MW.PDF]
[6 replies Last reply 2019-09-24 5:51
PM]
Jacalyn Boggs 3 years ago
I rise with two points of Order:
First: under Article V of the By-Laws, The person moving this has no standing.
Second: Even if she did have standing, it is
not an Amendment, but rather an Alternative Motion. As such it is out of order.
Dawn McKechnie 2 years ago
Hi @Betsy R. Marks, the revisions look nice, so pro. :) Just a note, there
are a few places where it waffles back and forth between using contractions and
not using them. #proofreadingismyjob #APstylehell #Can'tUnseeIt
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
Thanks, Dawn! I appreciate the feedback! Unfortunately, the ICG President
rejected my version of the revision, so we are either voting for the current
proposed document or every change I made needs to be moved as an amendment to
the original document. This is why I moved to table the motion altogether to
return it to committee.
Dawn McKechnie 2 years ago
#goodtimes. The compliment still stands. :-) Hard work is always appreciated.
Feeling bumps in the road still means you're going forward.
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
/heart emoji/
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
Thank you for recognizing the time it took to create the revision. I appreciate
that more than you can imagine right now.
Betsy
R. Marks 1:14
PM
And so move to replace the current draft document with this draft.
Betsy
R. Marks
President, Silicon Web Costumers' Guild
Alternate, ICG Board of Directors
Merrily 1:16 PM
I second Bod Rep GCFCG
Jacalyn
Boggs 1:19
PM
I cannot approve a motion to amend when there has been no discussion yet on
proposed problems and there is need to review this long document and possibly
translate through this difficult to read document.
1:19
Also,
can a non-voting member make a motion?
Betsy
R. Marks 1:29
PM
I suggest you read Standing Rule 17 in its entirety.
VR
Betsy
R. Marks
President, Silicon Web Costumers' Guild
Jacalyn
Boggs 1:45
PM
Is there a reason why you put back in multiple POV? This is
confusing.
Betsy
R. Marks 1:49
PM
To what are you referring? The POV was always the Masquerade Director. I
replaced third person with first person largely because it's a less dictatorial
form. These are guidelines, not rules. And we don't have a hammer. All we can
do is make a case for being fare and providing contestants with safe spaces.
It's up to the masquerade director to decide whether what we offer makes sense.
Betsy
R. Marks 1:56
PM
Sigh: fair. (Thanks, autocorrect.)
Jacalyn
Boggs 2:22
PM
I’m still only partway through this complete edit (not an amendment) and the
multiple voices is not only unprofessional but sounds incredibly targeting and
authoritative. The move to third person was far better, especially since it’s
more professional for a formal document anyway. However, I notice some
corrections to passive voice lines and I like those. As a former writer, I
abhor passive voice. Too many formal documents use it and it makes me twitchy.
Jacalyn
Boggs 2:28
PM
Also, we had already discussed the need to remove terms like “ADA”. First
of all, when using an acronym for the first time such as ADA, you need to
specify what it stands for and this does not. Second of all, the ADA is solely
an American thing (it stands for Americans with Disabilities Act) and has no
bearing outside of this country. While we need to ensure our guidelines meet
ADA compliance, we need to also ensure they meet international
compliance and uses terms that can be understood on the international level.
Simply saying “accessibility” sufficed, and why “ADA” was not
included. This should be able to count somewhere because there was a
recorded discussion regarding it.
Betsy
R. Marks 2:29
PM
Without the term ADA, we are not in compliance with our own country.
[3 replies Last reply 2019-09-16 2:35 PM]
Merrily 3 years ago
I missed that. It should read something like “Americans with Disabilities Act
(ADA) in the United States or any similar standards in the country the
masquerade is being held” . This would cover us since we are a US based
international organization and the community we swerve
Merrily 3 years ago
Serve
Betsy R. Marks 3 years ago
Will correct that. Thanks!