Messages in ICG #boardofdirectors (Slack)           <2019-09-16  2019-09-18>

2019-09-17

 

Marianne Pease  8:36 AM
@Elaine is the representative for her chapter and has checked in for the month. (Thanks for always making the regularly posted checkin list, @Anne Davenport!). Betsy does not have the right to make the motion, and motions for the Silicon Web should be made by (or through) Elaine.

 

Secondly, instead of making a full 'amendment by substitution,' I would like to request that issues/amendments be brought up topically. I've heard (second and third hand) that individuals have specific issues but unless they're brought up for discussion, how can we know what they are?


@Betsy R. Marks Guidelines make a host of changes from changing the document to a second person point of view (instead of third person), removing the Documentation section from general competition guidelines to being specific to Historical costuming, and altering the accessibility sections in a way that I'm informed would remove us from legal compliance.


@Merrily, you've always been an advocate for accessibility of all types, are the GCFCG rep, and the only valid motion on this. Are you going to repropose this amendment by substitution? I've heard that you would like to make some changes to the proposed guidelines but haven't heard anything from you on what those changes actually are? What are the areas that you want to discuss and improve?
Instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water, let's get the heart of the actual issues people have and actually talk.
Marianne

 

Mera Rose  8:40 AM
So - I think after reading some of these posts and listening to comments and concerns from some of the forums and from members, there’s some misunderstanding and mischaracterization of who I am, why I’m here, and what my goals are with this organization.  I guess I never got introduced to everyone here, so I’ll post my intro/bio/thoughts on everything to this thread.  Read at your leisure, lol, it’s actually against my nature to do this sort of thing as I am “the quiet type.”  I’m more of an introvert and known is most circles personally and professionally as a mediator.  (Meyers Briggs INFJ.)Please respond with your bios/intros here too.  Many of us don’t know each other or have interacted minimally, so it would be good to know more about everyone that we are working with!

 

[2 replies Last reply 2019-09-17 9:56 AM]

 

Mera Rose  2 years ago
I’ve been here for 4 years, and I’ve listened to the suggestions, complaints, history, etc.  I don’t do drama, and I’m very straight forward.  Since I started with the ICG, and as I stated to Phil Gust when he and I first talked about being considered for VP, I have dedicated myself to finding the best practices to use to achieve the central goal of our current mission statement:  to preserve the works of Costumers and Cosplayers in our archives and create a truly inclusive community for everyone, professional, amateur, conventioneer, or hobbyist, who wants to participate.

 

All of the work I have done on the 5 year plan and the current guidelines revision with Marianne was done in this spirit, and the idea that I’ve offended anyone through that work is truly unintentional and saddens me greatly.  Please accept my heartfelt apology if you have been offended by any of my statements or work product.  I want to see this organization thrive, or I wouldn’t be here, and I hope that everyone understands that my intentions are to improve communications, increase membership and chapter numbers, aid with updates to documents and online technology usage to promote the most inclusive environment possible and streamline content for members, chapters, and MDs and conventioneers, and increase revenue to ensure the most comprehensive archive possible of this amazing visual art that is Costuming.

 

Marianne and I knew that these updates may not be received well, which is why we presented them at CostumeCon 2019 and put them up for discussion and debate.  We really wanted everyone to look at them and give their input and hoped it would spur the kind of conversations that are now finally occurring, but after 6 months with no input and pressure from the Con community to update the guidelines felt it was important to move them to a vote.  Please note that EVERYTHING in the 5 year plan is still on the floor for discussion and input, and committees are currently being formed to create finalized documents to guide us for the next 5 years.

 

 

We WANT your input.  We would appreciate it if it could always be given in a civil tone, and ask that everyone avoid comments made in anger or frustration.  We acknowledge that the current guidelines revision is not perfect, but it utilized many suggestions and incorporates requests from MDs and conventioneers as well as bringing the general document into compliance with established non-discrimination laws in the US.  A new guidelines committee should be appointed after the vote on this update to continue substantive changes for 2020.  Consider this a stepping stone.  I concur that there are sections that should be added.  An entire section on thermoplastics and armor was submitted for this document but was removed from this draft for brevity.  I wrote that section as well as the large costume section, and the non-discrimination sections, and safety guidelines.  I really would love additional input on those sections as these are based on my knowledge and input from sources outside the ICG, including masquerade den mothers, directors, and conventioneers, and VABADAN attorneys who screened language for non-discrimination after it was requested to remove the specific US laws names.  

 

Please take this time to look at the 5 year plan.  The committees that will be formed will present changes based on that plan, hopefully at the annual meeting in 2020, so that we can call for votes and move forward on our attempts at recruitment and acquisitions for the archives.  I am truly interested in hearing all ideas and thought I’d be serving more as a coordinator and consultant than a content creator.  

 

This organization has a history of amazing people and amazing work.  Some have sought to minimize its contributions, but I feel that’s an issue of the past that we must move past and not allow to define the future of the organization.

 

Thank you for reading this.  I hope to continue working with everyone for many years to come!

 

Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
There is no such thing as an “amendment by substitution”. Further, things like amendments need to be done on the relational level, so in this case an elected board member. 

 

However there are a few things that I think should be discussed that could form potential amendments to be voted on from what I saw in this out of order revision.  I will go through them line by line.  To contain the noise, I would like to do this in threaded conversations doled out over the course of the next roughly 24-48 hours, give or take and based on discussion level. These items, being discussed openly by the board, may prove what is needed (and should have been done) for the board members to make an informed vote when the voting begins next week. 

 

But  we should not remove the third person. It is the wrong choice. A professional document of this nature needs to be in the third person. Furthermore, it is far less biased in the third person.  This is a correction that is long overdue.

 

Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
@Mera Rose I believe anything not regarding the guidelines from the 5 year plan needs to be publicly held back until the guidelines are completed.  We don’t need to muddy these already muddy waters due to our of order items with the guidelines. Right now we need to focus on the guidelines and other business (such as dealing with the budget) until after the guidelines vote next week. The five year plan was definitely contentious, and we don’t want to risk that bleeding over in to the obviously contentious guidelines discussion.

 

Merrily  2 years ago
Merrily's edits and comments on original proposed ICG Guidelines

 

[ICG Guidelines-REDLINE-1.docx]

 

Merrily  2 years ago
I'm in the mist of a crunch at work and my teen daughter is still recovering from surgery, please forgive me if I don't copy my comments over to the tread from the document.

 

Most of my comments are for clarification and consistency. I'm big on accessibility and that includes making sure new people are in the loop. I like to assume the reader is new to this and needs to have some background rather than assume they know things.

 

I just reviewed the Balticon masquerade rules with their director and several committee members. A few of my comments are a reflection of what I experienced in that lively conversation.  There too I was the voice asking for things not assumed all costumers (or anyone else) just knows these things.

 

Mera Rose  8:40 AM
So - I think after reading some of these posts and listening to comments and concerns from some of the forums and from members, there’s some misunderstanding and mischaracterization of who I am, why I’m here, and what my goals are with this organization.  I guess I never got introduced to everyone here, so I’ll post my intro/bio/thoughts on everything to this thread.  Read at your leisure, lol, it’s actually against my nature to do this sort of thing as I am “the quiet type.”  I’m more of an introvert and known is most circles personally and professionally as a mediator.  (Meyers Briggs INFJ.)

 

Please respond with your bios/intros here too.  Many of us don’t know each other or have interacted minimally, so it would be good to know more about everyone that we are working with!

 

[2 replies Last reply 2019-09-17 8:50 AM]

 

Mera Rose  2 years ago
Hi!  I feel like introductions are in order, as it appears that my bio never made it to anyone or any group, and lots of questions about “who is she and why is she making all these recommendations” abound.  I thought it pertinent to post a bio so that y’all can see where I’m coming from.  Please also keep in mind that I don’t consider myself an authority on anything, and everything I do is open for discussion or debate.  I try very hard to make sure I don’t have an ego tied up in my work as I like to work WITH everyone...  inclusion is my #1 thing.

 

I was born and raised in Roanoke, VA.  I am a professional production designer and we specialize in costumes, sets, props, makeup, technical operations, theater crew, etc.  For the last 7 years, my husband and I have operated as Prop House 42 Productions, but prior to that we were Shimmer and Shade with our former business partner.  We have 5 genetically disabled children, and I am also an education and disabilities advocate with the Virginia Anti-Bullying and Discrimination Action Network, a group of educators, parents, advocates, attorneys, and legislators that are working together to affect change here in our Commonwealth.  My husband and I also have a small hobby farm where we live with our children, central to Richmond so that I can pester legislators as necessary to advocate for the disabled and for education reform.

I’ve been doing Masquerades as a competitor, Director, and judge since DragonCon 1996.  I’ve worked with DragonCon the most, and so I consider it my home convention.  I’m also a member of the Costuming Society of America and was made their liaison to the ICG after I was elected as Vice President.  I’ve worked on independent films, in theaters, haunts, and amusement parks, and other projects as a costumer, Prop Master, set designer, and makeup artist.  I am also known for disability accommodating and sensory friendly Costuming, and our family does a Halloween event every year for children with special needs who would not otherwise be able to Trick or Treat.  You’ve likely seen us online or in competition as Shimmer and Shade Family Cosplay or my kids as the Mini Mighty Munchkin Cosplayer brigade since 2010.  As we have won many times, we focus less on winning and more on giving people a good show, generally through comedic mashups now.

 

My first degree was in computer science in the late 90s.  I was part of the dot com boom and subsequent bust with a little company in Seattle WA called KYTA web design.  Back then I specialized in databases, content management, and graphic design.  I also did some writing on White Wolf’s World of Darkness.  If you come across photos of me from 96 - 2002, they’ll most likely be of me in all black, as I was a goth.  Lol.  Thankfully, Goths grow up into Steampunks, and I did a lot of time in that realm until a couple of years ago.

 

After the dot com bust, I moved to what my mother, a former ballerina turned 501(c)3 accountant and accounting professor for VA Tech (I grew up auditing her classes in lieu of requiring a babysitter, lol), deemed a more stable profession:  the law.  From 2002 until 2012, I worked as a corporate and employment law paralegal, with a few detours into family law, entertainment law, Disability law, and collections law.  We were a Navy family, so I lived all over the country and got to experience and work with many conventions and their Costuming departments.  I became known as a thermoplastics expert and have done hundreds of panels and demos on thermoplastics and their use in Costuming.  I started creating large scale costumes and props and became known as “The Replicator” by some sci-fi conventions, as there wasn’t much that I couldn’t recreate with good production photos and thermoplastics.  If you ever attended a demo given by a girl with blue hair, it was likely me.  I had a branding problem for many years because I allowed conventions to call me whatever they wanted, lol.

 

Mera Rose  2 years ago
As the kids’ disabilities became known and we started working with medical, I moved to the local Con community and commissions I could do at home in addition to running our production company full time.  I took over as the Masquerade Director for Mysticon, left over Con drama (I don’t do drama, I’m very straight forward) and now am Big Lick ComicCon’s MD.  

 

I have tons of 501(c)3 experience through all this, including setting up VABADAN and working with the ARC, Virginia Autism Project, Autism Society, Cri du Chat Society, etc.  Also, as I audited about 8 years of bachelors and masters level classes and helped my Mom out for a long time grading papers, etc, I have a lot of knowledge on accounting and specifically, 501(c)3 accounting.  As a lifelong member of the Democratic Party of Virginia, which started with me knocking doors at age 8 with my grandmother, I became a parliamentarian and have been on the communications and rules committees for the DPVA for the last 15 years.  As a corporate law paralegal, I have experience with all of the documents required to facilitate a corporation like ours, and have served as the legal observer, transcriptionist, and supervised adviser (meaning legal interpreter/paralegal working under and attorney) for many board meetings, although I don’t sit for the bar exam until 2021 (currently reading the law to do this in VA) and can’t give legal advice.  As a disabilities advocate and paralegal, I have lots of experience with the ADA and due process and OCR filings.  As a former web designer, I have lots of experience with web design, flow, marketing, advertising, databases, graphics, and increasing revenue from target audiences.  And as a costumer in this community since 1996, I have a lot of experience with Masquerades, Guidelines, tech ops, and all of the things that go into making conventions work for Costumers and cosplayers.  

 

I’ve been here for 4 years, and I’ve listened to the suggestions, complaints, history, etc.  I don’t do drama, and I’m very straight forward.  Since I started with the ICG, and as I stated to Phil Gust when he and I first talked about being considered for VP, I have dedicated myself to finding the best practices to use to achieve the central goal of our current mission statement:  to preserve the works of Costumers and Cosplayers in our archives and create a truly inclusive community for everyone, professional, amateur, conventioneer, or hobbyist, who wants to participate.

 

All of the work I have done on the 5 year plan and the current guidelines revision with Marianne was done in this spirit, and the idea that I’ve offended anyone through that work is truly unintentional and saddens me greatly.  Please accept my heartfelt apology if you have been offended by any of my statements or work product.  I want to see this organization thrive, or I wouldn’t be here, and I hope that everyone understands that my intentions are to improve communications, increase membership and chapter numbers, aid with updates to documents and online technology usage to promote the most inclusive environment possible and streamline content for members, chapters, and MDs and conventioneers, and increase revenue to ensure the most comprehensive archive possible of this amazing visual art that is Costuming.

 

I’m 41 now, but expect the secrets of the universe to be unraveled when I turn 42 in November, as it is the answer to life, the universe, and everything.  

 

Much  to all!!!

 

Pierre Pettinger  9:13 AM
To make things clear to Jacalyn's points of order, which I have posted on the Yahoo list.

 

Pierre Pettinger  9:13 AM
Okay,

 

First, the question is the movers right to make a motion. She identifies as the President of her chapter (the defacto representative to the BOD under SR 6) but the alternate representative. The mover needs to inform us if the regular representative is unavailable. If so, she has standing to make a motion. If the official representative is available, then she does not. In the latter situation the regular representative may: remake the motion themselves; or cede authority to the alternate (in which case they may not vote until they reassert standing); or the seconder may make the motion and look for another person to second the motion.

 

Second, this is an amendment by substitution. An amendment by substitution occurs when the amending motion is to delete text from the original motion and replace it with other text. An amendment by substitution is in order even if the entire body of the original text is being replaced.

 

Dependent on the response of the original mover, the motion is in order.

 

Pierre E. Pettinger, Jr.

 

[7 replies Last reply 2019-09-17 7:21 PM]

 

Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
You need to take it to the thread

 

Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
But also, the representative is here and was not listing as unavailable. Second, there is no such thing as amendment by substitution.

 

Betsy R. Marks  2 years ago
I strongly suggest you read Standing Rule 23, regarding Pierre's role as Parliamentarian, and in particular section C, regarding Robert's Rules of Order. If you'd like, I can also provide a link to the section of the online version pertaining to amendments.

 

Pierre has served in this role since the position was founded and the Standing Rule is the original, from 1990.

 

Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
Are you trying to call in Pierre's role as parliamentarian in to question? If you think that the President or Board need to call in to question his relevance, then you need to state so, rather reminding us to review that this position is a non-voting position appointed by the President and serving at their pleasure. While he is wrong as you had not been stated to be taking Elaine's place as well as you were not submitting an actual amendment but a change of far more than half of the current proposed document, and as thus out of order, I feel like your pointing us to the standing rule regarding his role as a little odd. (edited) 

 

Betsy R. Marks  2 years ago
I have no question as to Pierre's value as Parliamentarian, but you seem to be at odds with his opinion, which is why I brought it up. I trust Pierre's opinion and rulings completely, without question.

 

Betsy R. Marks  2 years ago
And as I said, good night.

 

Pierre Pettinger  2 years ago
Just saw this thread. Jacalyn says there is no such thing as  Amendment by Substitution. I refer her to Roberts Rules, 11th Edition. Page 134. This is Section 12; regarding process. Part 3b.

 

Jacalyn Boggs  9:14 AM
Topic of conversation regarding the guidelines. Please keep all comments to this topic in this thread. In the portion of the guidelines regarding tech rehearsals, we state that they are important and outline procedures and the like. There is no language regarding events unable to comply with tech rehearsals. Should we perhaps consider amending the section with some wording to include “when available” of some sort or do we believe that it is simply understood this section is only for those events with the capability of tech rehearsals?

 

Elaine  10:00 AM
For the purpose of the discussion of the Motion to amend current draft of the ICG Guidelines: Ensuring Fair Competition, I am standing aside as the SiliconWeb BoD rep and Betsy Marks will be standing in my stead.

 

We are in frequent communication on this matter and will be reporting as a team to the SiWeb chapter on the discussion and resolutions.

 

Betsy R. Marks  10:02 AM
Thank you, Elaine!

 

Betsy R. Marks  10:07 AM
I believe that resolves the question of whether the motion I made was in order.As the maker of the motion, I have a right to address the BOD and explain my reasons for the amendment. Because my last official date at my job is 9/24, I reserve the right to submit this information after COB this evening. I will also provide a biography, so that people who are new to this organization have an understanding of what my roles have been over the last 32 years, and why I made the amendment to the proposed document revision.I am happy to break down each individual wording change, but this will take time and I have limited free time until Saturday.

 

Thank you for your attention and understanding.

 

VR

 

Betsy

 

Marianne Pease  10:46 AM
I’ve been doing some parliamentary procedure research and substitute amendments seem to be a fairly complex subject. Some legislative bodies rule that you can’t substitute one motion for another until the original is postponed or disagreed to. In our situation with the lengthy online format as opposed to immediately taking votes in a room all together, we would have to pass the original motion, then vote and pass Betsy’s proposal, THEN pass any other amendments to her proposal that are made in order to bring her document up to publishing standard.

 

Furthermore, there is no requirement for the chair to take a motion. This decision may be overturned by the board (remember for us, it’s a 15 discussion period, 15 voting period, etc) and then the motion may then resume.

 

As such, we will proceed as follows.
The motion made and seconded by Betsy and Merrily is not recognized.

This is not because I don’t acknowledge their point of view or wish to discourage discussion and amendments to the motion but rather to streamline the process so we don’t wind up with Amendments to Amendments to Amendments of the Motion that all need to pass sequentially in order to achieve the final outcome.

Please submit motions for amendments to the original document. If you believe that Motion 2019-09-08 should be replaced entirely, please vote against approving it when the voting period begins on September 28, and submit a new motion if it fails to pass the BoD.

 

[1 reply Last reply 2019-09-17 10:54 AM]

 

Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
I am looking forward to seeing the discussion continue on the proposed guidelines until the voting period.

 

Betsy R. Marks  10:54 AM
Fine. I will withdraw the single amendment document and provide each substitution separately. As I used the current document to create my revision, I will need to revisit the original and your revisions and make corrections from that. I can say that I will vote no on the existing proposed revision as written.

 

I'm out of work for good after the 24th with no replacement job in sight, so I will have plenty of time starting the 25th.Thank you for your consideration.

 

Betsy

 

[10 replies Last reply 2019-09-18 7:10 AM ]

 

Marianne Pease  2 years ago
Thank you for understanding my reasoning. It's a complicated topic and I just want to make it as simple to get through as possible.

 

Betsy R. Marks  2 years ago
I get that. This would be a LOT easier to handle in a committee format.

 

Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
That's why there was a call out for people interested in a committee and why there will be committees in the future. This has gone through and is now a proposal to the board, and thus, out of committee.

 

Betsy R. Marks  2 years ago
And if the motion is withdrawn it can go right back to committee again, which is exactly the same as the last process, when the guidelines were updated in 2010.

 

Betsy R. Marks  2 years ago
I have a job interview in the morning.

 

Good night.

 

Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
But it is not a motion to withdraw. Again, it has been rejected. You do not need to withdraw it.

 

Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
Also there’s no committee for the document you created as there was not one appointed by the president. That was something you chose to do on your own. However, once the vote takes place, it will be time to form a new committee. You can request the president consider you for placement on said committee, but there is no way to take your document “back to committee” as there wasn’t a committee.

 

Betsy R. Marks  2 years ago
I'm not talking about my document.

 

Betsy R. Marks  2 years ago
As regards a call for committee members, the ICG-D list contains no such call. The last reference I could find came from Phil Gust in 2016.There was reference made on the BOD list on Yahoo in 2017 and 2018, but nothing more recent than an offhand comment on a different thread that Marianne was working on the Guidelines alone.

 

I will happily walk this comment back if someone can point me to the public call for committee members within the last nine months, outside of the Annual meeting.Thank you.

 

Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
Then what motion do you want withdrawn? The only one on the floor is the current guidelines.  There is no need to withdraw this as 1. It is replacing a decade old document that is far out of date 2. We have tried for far too many years to get to this point 3. We have had it for six months for anyone to discuss and no one has done so, 4. We are now in discussions prior to a vote commencing next week.   As most people are not participating in the conversation, they must feel Ok with the document. However, your constant unwillingness to positively contribute to moving forward and to instead distract from the conversation is a huge problem. None of us have the time to continue wasting on your filibustering attempts.

 

Betsy R. Marks  10:55 AM
This does not change Elaine's status with regard to the motion on the floor: I am the primary from our chapter for the purpose of discussion the Guidelines.

 

VR

 

Betsy

 

[4 replies Last reply 2019-09-17 10:58 AM]

 

Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
No it does not.  I'm not sure why you felt the need to state this as Elaine has stated that you will be the representative for this discussion.

 

Betsy R. Marks  2 years ago
Just making sure we are all on the same page, as there have been questions, both on this board and off.

 

Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
Once Elaine made a statement, that removed the question.  That is actually how this procedure works.

 

Betsy R. Marks  2 years ago
Thank you, Jacalyn.

 

Betsy R. Marks  4:40 PM
Point of Information:

 

 Pierre, must a request to withdraw a motion come from the original maker of the motion or can such a motion be made by someone other than the maker of the motion? The rest is quite clear except this point.

 

My read of Robert's Rules is unclear because of the nature of the request.

 

Thanks for shedding light.

 

Betsy

 

[4 replies Last reply 2019-09-18 04:15 AM]

 

Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
As the motion was not recognized and the document is not on the floor, there is no need to make a request to withdraw.

 

Betsy R. Marks  2 years ago
From your point of view, perhaps, but not from mine, thanks.

 

Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
Actually the president literally said the words “The motion made and seconded by Betsy and Merrily is not recognized.”  This isn’t a matter of opinion. It is fact, as stated by the President.

 

Betsy R. Marks  2 years ago
What makes you think I'm talking about my denied motion?

 

Jacalyn Boggs  8:27 PM
Topic of conversation regarding the proposed guidelines.  Please keep all comments to this topic in this thread. 

 

The current document covers when a director of a contest can choose to have an entry listed as a not-for-competition.  Should we perhaps consider including a line stating that a contestant can register as not-for-completion or do we consider this understood?

 

[2 replies Last reply 2019-09-17 08:39 PM]

 

Merrily  2 years ago
I don’t like leaving things “understood “. To assume everyone has the same knowledge or experience sets people up for confusion. I think it should be made clear contestants should have that option if they desire. We should have some examples when someone may like to do this so a new director or contestants may understand why: won an international competition and would like to show their local audience, etc.

 

Jacalyn Boggs  2 years ago
I think you make a fair point about how not everyone has the same knowledge so care needs to be taken when considered something as “understood”.