Messages in ICG #boardofdirectors (Slack) <2019-11-05 2019-11-07>
Jacalyn
Boggs 1:18
PM
I am making a motion for The ICG Board to hire an international lawyer to draft
a. A code of conduct b. A non-discrimination policy c. An anti-harassment
policy to be received no later than 31 December 2019 so that a vote can be
completed no later than 31 January 2020.
Dragan
Rose 1:22
PM
Seconded, Sarah Richardson, GCFCG.
Jacalyn
Boggs 1:23
PM
I motion for The ICG Board task the finance committee to find appropriate
liability insurance for the corporation to be in place by 1 January 2020.
Judy
Mitchell 1:24
PM
is there going to be the usual 15 days discussion? And what happened to no new
business?
[1 reply Last reply 2019-11-06 2:50 PM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Anyone that brings up something that they can justify as needing to be
addressed before Sunday will get acknowledgement and a motion number. I’d
love it if that didn’t happen, but I’m not going to dismiss anyone’s concerns
just because it’s inconvenient for me. It is what it is at this
point. Though I appreciate y’all for trying.
Jeanine
Swick 1:26
PM
No new business!
kevin.p.roche 1:27 PM
Speaking as an observer: Do you mean general liability insurance, D&O
(Directors and Officers liability insurance, or something else?
[1 reply Last reply 2019-11-06 1:30 PM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
I would assume that it is D&O, but as I'm not an Maryland or International
lawyer/insurance agent, that is why I said "appropriate liability
insurance". Sometimes names differ slightly from state to state
so I wanted to ensure we got the appropriate answer when investigating.
Dragan
Rose 1:34
PM
Judy and Jeanine are right. We said no new business, Ozma.
As enthusiastic as I am about getting a code of conduct, we do need to wait.
[3 replies Last reply 2019-11-06 2:33 PM]
Is this an official withdrawal of your second?
Dragan Rose 2 years ago
No
Dragan Rose 2 years ago
I am still for this, but I respect the comments by the by you and Judy
reminding us that we were not to bring new business until Ron takes over as
Presiding Officer.
Dragan
Rose 1:35
PM
Maybe this can be a time for us to be getting drafts and looking for lawyers?
So that way when the time comes we have a plan of action to present to the BOD.
Judy
Mitchell 1:37
PM
While I"m not saying having these items is bad,
it's likely a good thing, I would also like to point out that an expenditure of
that magnitude might be something more that should be discussed at the General
Membership meeting, when we have an opportunity to get sufficient info. We
certainly would need to get multiple quotes on the costs of such things. These
are not things that should be just jumped into rashly.
Elaine 1:37 PM
nom-voting rep: With the definite need for all of these, there needs to be
discussion with the ENTIRE BoD. Not just the frequent
commentors here. Those that are still only on Yahoo! Still need to be included
somehow. Remember, this was only a temporary VOTING platform, not a permanent
discussion platform.
We
need to be sure that Byron, Henry, Randall, Elaine M., etc
all need to be included in this very important discussion.
[2 replies Last reply 2019-11-06 2:06 PM]
These have been sent to yahoogroups
already. If yahoogroups is holding the
emails back, that is a problem inherent with the privately owned yahoogroups the BOD utilizes and should also be addressed.
Also sent to the channel
Betsy R. Marks 2 years ago
That includes every message posted on this platform. All of it requires crossposting for all BOD members to understand what is
being said and what is being proposed. And they need time to read and
understand the contents of every post made here. And they also require the time
and courtesy of recording a response, should they desire to post one.
Mera Rose 1:41 PM
Um - hi. I didn’t say no new business and I’ve already clarified
this once.There are two motions on the floor: one
for the code of conduct, et al, which was seconded.
The
second for the finance committee to look into liability insurance. It
has not been seconded.
At
this time, I recognize both motions. As I just had to pull into a
parking lot to handle this because my phone started blowing up with
notifications, I will address anything else once I get home in half an hour.
[1 reply Last reply 2019-11-06 2:05 PM]
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
Yes you did:
On Oct 26, 2019, this was posted by Mera when
announcing Ron would become our presiding officer:
merarose [4:40 PM]
snipped for the pertinent part
*In other words, unless there’s that absolutely
can’t wait, please keep all remaining business matters other than nominations
on hold until Ron is available, in roughly 2 weeks.”
Cordially,
Mera Babineaux
What has been put forward as motions is
completely out of line at this time. Neither of the motions are for a
"super urgent thing"
Mera Rose 1:44 PM
Motion # 11-6-2019-1: motion for The ICG Board to hire an
international lawyer to draft a. A code of conduct b. A non-discrimination
policy c. An anti-harassment policy to be received no later than 31 December
2019 so that a vote can be completed no later than 31 January 2020.
15
day discussion period ends November 21, 2019 at 4:45pm. 15 day voting
period to run from 4:45pm Nov 21, 2019 to Dec 6, 2019.
Jeanine
Swick 1:54
PM
On Oct 26, 2019, this was posted by Mera when
announcing Ron woold become our presiding officer:
merarose [4:40 PM]
snipped for the pertinent part
*In
other words, unless there’s that absolutely can’t wait, please keep all
remaining business matters other than nominations on hold until Ron is
available, in roughly 2 weeks.*
Cordially,
Mera Babineaux
What
has been put forward as motions is completely out of line at this
time. Neither of the motions are for a "super urgent
thing"
Judy
Mitchell 1:55
PM
and this is not 'normal business' of admitting new chapters. This is an
exorbitant amount of funds you are asking for immediate use without even the
time to get proper quotes.
Judy
Mitchell 2:11
PM
Point of order: Dragan rescinded her seconding. Was there someone else that
seconded that I haven't seen?
[3 replies Last reply 2019-11-06 2:26 PM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
She didn’t say she withdrew it, she said that y’all had agreed on no new
business. Seconds must be withdrawn properly under Roberts rules.
Merrily 2 years ago
@Dragan Rose please see Mera’s comments and
clarify your comments. Thank you
Dragan Rose 2 years ago
I am not rescinding my second, I was conceding that Judy and Jeanine were
correct in their statement that there is to be no new business.
Mera Rose 2:15 PM
Again - and the last time I will say this: we are not in recess. I
asked that y’all please be considerate and hold any motions that you didn’t
deem urgent until Ron got here. The chapter couldn’t be held, it’s a
petition, we handle those as they come in.
And
Jacalyn is making motions that she deems of urgent nature on behalf of her
chapter. I have asked if she believes they must be handled
immediately and she has given good cause for them to be imperative for her
chapter. I have acknowledged them, and given one a motion number.
I
will do the same for any of you who wish to raise motions. That
includes the budget, which still hasn’t been motioned. Some business
just has to be dealt with. Essentially, I’m done on Sunday so
there’s no vote tallying or anything else I need to handle, and no one can argue
I have anything else to do with this, so this is fine.
As
for the expense, certainly something worth discussing, I agree. Y’all
have fun with that.
Conversations
are to remain civil. Pretend there’s a code of conduct. I
don’t want to move this board to moderated comments.
And
- for the record - disagreeing with someone isn’t being uncivil as long as it
isn’t phrased in an uncivil matter.
Judy
Mitchell 2:18
PM
additional point of order: the motion states that the vote is to hire an
international lawyer....to receive policies no later than Dec 31 for voting Jan
31. How can we vote to hire someone when we don't know who we're hiring? And
whether they can even provide the documents within this time frame? And whether
we can even afford them? I move that the vote be changed to
investigating the hiring of an international lawyer to provide... with a
minimum of 3 quotes to be compared before voting on which lawyer to go with.
[12 replies Last reply 2019-11-06 2:28 PM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Do ya'll not normally do the standard 3 quotes as
standard operating procedure? I thought that was well enough known to not need
saying. I am more than happy to add in three quotes is it needs to
be said.
1
Judy Mitchell 2 years ago
please do so. Unless it is stated, it's not SOP. the point of a motion is to
list everything specifically. Such as a "vote to hire" is not the
same as a "vote to investigate hiring"
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Judy and Jacalyn - please get together on the wording of the amended motion and
post it here and I’ll amend it
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
I motion for The ICG Board task the finance committee to solicit three quotes
to find appropriate liability insurance for the corporation to be in place by 1
January 2020.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Also Jacalyn, if you’d like to amend the wording on the liability insurance
motion you can withdraw and motion again with the new language
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Motion # 11-6-2019-1: motion for The ICG Board to solicit three
quotes and hire an international lawyer to draft a. A code of conduct b. A
non-discrimination policy c. An anti-harassment policy to be received no later
than 31 December 2019 so that a vote can be completed no later than 31 January
2020.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
There's the two edits
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Easy enough
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Ok. Post the withdrawal of the liability motion in a new thread and
then post the new motion in a new thread. Let’s try to keep it easy
to follow please.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
I’ll amend the existing motion
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
New thread
Judy Mitchell 2 years ago
we don't even know if any law firms would be able to get us the info in that
time frame.
Mera Rose 2:20 PM
Exactly something that is very worth discussing. @Jacalyn Boggs
[1 reply Last reply 2019-11-06 2:27 PM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Sorry I didn't realize it needed to be said. Every organization I've ever
worked with just standard operating procedure was to solicit three quotes and
then choose from those. I was not aware that the ICG didn't just default to the
same thing.
Jacalyn
Boggs 2:27
PM
I rescind my previous motion for the liability insurance and motion for this
instead:
I
motion for The ICG Board task the finance committee to solicit three quotes to
find appropriate liability insurance for the corporation to be in place by 1
January 2020.
[1 reply Last reply 2019-11-06 2:43 PM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Acknowledged. Please cross post to Yahoo. Is there a
second?
Mera Rose 2:29 PM
The existing motion 11-6-2019-1 has been motioned for amendment by Judy
Mitchell and rewritten by the motioner, Jacalyn
Boggs. The motion is amended as:
Motion
# 11-6-2019-1: motion for The ICG Board to solicit three quotes and
hire an international lawyer to draft a. A code of conduct b. A
non-discrimination policy c. An anti-harassment policy to be received no later
than 31 December 2019 so that a vote can be completed no later than 31 January
2020.
Dragan
Rose 2:35
PM
Just in case it gets buried, I didn't rescind my second on the code of conduct.
I was busy getting a river water sample for my microbiology class and didn't
get the notification.
2
Judy
Mitchell 2:42
PM
You still missed the distinction between 'investigating TO hire' and
'investigating AND hiring'. So if we find that we cannot possibly afford an
international lawyer, which of you is going to pay the fee that ICG can't
afford? Or are you planning on levying taxes to cover an unknown
cost? This wording locks us in to something we don't even know if we can
afford. And I still feel very strongly that this should be a vote at the
General Meeting at CC, not rushed through online. the subject is too important.
[5 replies Last reply 2019-11-06 3:58 PM]
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Please add this comment to the motion thread so it can be seen and discussed
and doesn’t get lost. Thanks!
Judy Mitchell 2 years ago
It's so hard to keep track of things! I'll see what I can do.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
I do not believe we can wait until mid-March to even begin to move on things
that have been clearly in need of for a long time. That is still four months
away. We cannot just sit back in important matters when we’ve
already lost three potential chapters and at least one member chapter, a number
of members, and two elected officers. We have some serious PR problems that
movement would certainly aid with, including, hopefully regaining that which we
have lost as well as protecting the corporation against further liability.
Judy Mitchell 2 years ago
I didn't say we needed to wait until mid-March to BEGIN to move, I said the
subject should be brought to the membership and the voting done then. That
allows for all the ducks to be gotten in a row in the meantime. That's hardly
doing nothing.
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
The chapter that left because it felt unsupported since they had joined. I have
been stressing that fact that new chapters join and then left to sink or swim
all on their own with no support system for them. Members come and go all the
time with no comment about them leaving.
Mera Rose 4:34 PM
Cross posting from Yahoo:Jeanine,You’ve been heard. I
acknowledge that I didn’t want to handle any motions unless I had to. This
situation has spawned all kinds of other issues which are now pressing for
some. If the BoD rep for a chapter feels
they need to be addressed now, I’m going to err on the side of caution and give
them a motion number. I would do the same for you if you made a
motion you felt was important, or any other chapter rep or officer.Make
all the motions you (or anyone else) want(s), I have infinite numbers. Now,
my request to hold those that aren’t urgent is moot and let’s move on please
.Cordially,
Mera Babineaux
On
Nov 6, 2019, at 7:06 PM, jeanine jeanine@woollycat.net [ICG-BOD]
<ICG-BOD@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
No
one is saying that we are. Just repeating YOUR quote of no new business unless
it is urgent. None of this is that urgent no matter what you two might think.
Jeanine
Jeanine
Swick 4:46
PM
Only one person is seeing things as urgent. No one else has made any such
statements of urgency.
Dragan
Rose 5:29
PM
Quick question, how are we doing nominations for VP in the interim? I would
like to nominate Jan Price for Vice President. She has given me her ok. Right
now she is only on ICG-D on Yahoo.
Judy
Mitchell 6:08
PM
According to Mera's instructions, anouncing
on the D list is fine, and since she is on the D list she can answer to confirm
her acceptance.
Abigail
Welsher 6:25
PM
Personally, having reviewed everything that has happened in regards to all of
this, I believe that there has been some major miscommunication all around.
Bringing in a new President and Vice President at the same time
seems absurd to me. It would just result in more chaos. As a result, I feel
that I need to reject Mera’s resignation and ask her
to please consider finishing her elected term.
[3 replies Last reply 2019-11-06 6:41 PM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
I am seconding this sentiment. I have talked with multiple members of the BOD
as well as both Mera and Marianne about this.
Also sent to the channel
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
The members nominated for office are long time and very experienced people.
They both have a much longer history and deeper knowledge base than either of
you.
Also sent to the channel
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
We need people who actually have a clue on how to run an organization to get
everything back on track. All you have been doing is constantly throwing fuel
on the fire that you started. Abagail as an alt can not
make any motions.
Jacalyn
Boggs 6:27
PM
I motion for The ICG Board to issue a formal and public apology to a. The three
potential chapters lost b. Marianne and Mera c. CosMAKTx as they cited the turmoil of the BOD as one of
their reasons for disbanding.
[8 replies Last reply 2019-11-23 8:41 PM]
Jeanine Swick 2 years ago
Getand state your facts correctly! They also felt
unsupported by the ICG the other just added to it.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
I didn’t say they weren’t unsupported. I just said as they cited the turmoil
(they used the word asinine) as one of their reasons. We cannot simply ignore
that the turmoil has cost us heavily. This is a PR problem and it needs to be
corrected. Every motion that I’ve made has been in the vein of correcting our
mistakes.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
@Elaine Mami
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Elaine Mami has seconded this motion in Yahoo.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Motion #11-9-2019-1: Motion for The ICG Board to issue a formal and
public apology to a. The three potential chapters lost b. Marianne and Mera c. CosMAKTx as they cited
the turmoil of the BOD as one of their reasons for disbanding.
Elaine Mami 2 years ago
Has this motion been seconded? If not, I
second it.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
Yes. You did that via email.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
It goes to vote on Sunday.
Judy
Mitchell 6:40
PM
Jan Price has been VP before, she is not new to the position. Kevin Roche has
been chapter president in SiWeb as well as con chair
for a few costumecons and worldcons,
he is also a long time member of icg and can easily
manage the position of President. Putting either or both of them in as interim
officers will in no way cause any hardship to the running of the Corp if that's
what you are afraid of. Newbies stepping in? Yes, that would be a concern; but
not them.
Abigail
Welsher 6:44
PM
It wasn’t a motion. It was a request and my personal opinion, which last I
checked I am allowed to have. I neither agree nor disagree with any particular
person in this. I just see how it looks from an unbiased position.
[4 replies Last reply 2019-11-06 7:16 PM]
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
You are absolutely allowed to have the opinion. And frankly, you aren’t alone
in it. I’ve had multiple people tell me they feel the same. I was asked to talk
to both Marianne and Mera so I reached out to them. You
keep sharing your opinion. I AM a BOD rep and I am seconded your OPINION. However,
Mera has vastly more important things happening right
now so she will not be chiming in for the rest of the night on this matter.
Mera Rose 2 years ago
This is very kind. Thank you.
Jacalyn Boggs 2 years ago
No problem. You were called to FAR more important things
Mera Rose 2 years ago
Abigail, I really appreciate this sentiment and have heard it from many by
private communications over the last 10 days. I’ve talked with
Marianne about rescinding her resignation and she wants to stay focused on her
chapter, family, and personal matters. I have to ask that everyone
respect that, please.
I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit for
the last week or so since others asked me to rescind privately. I
will have an answer by Saturday, but need to rest now as answers are never best
given on exhaustion and the last 24 hours have been very eventful here at home. I
appreciate your opinion, and am grateful for the courage that it takes to speak
any opinion right now, and am sorry for the reaction you experienced by giving
it. As long as I’m here, all opinions will always be considered.
Judy
Mitchell 6:51
PM
Of course you can have a personal opinion, and it's good to look out for the
corp. But I'm guessing you don't know either of them, hence you're concern.
They are extremely qualified to handle the current situation. Both are also
very detailed oriented and quite able to wrangle hissing cats.