Dear Pierre:

Another annoying

>feature is the "grammar checker." The one on Word, for instance, absolutely
>hates the passive voice, doesn't recognize implied subjects, and apparently
>

Not a sixth grader; an average executive. My sister, in Scarborough, is
an admin support; before that, she was doing word processing. I spent ages
listening to her horror stories; until she finally put in for the transfer
to admin support. Among secretaries/amin support it is common knowledge
that most exceutives cannot compose a short sentence; never mind a memo that
says what it should. It is also working on the "Laugh-in" principle.
"Laugh-in" was put together much like masquerade presentations: people get
bored after more than two minutes; so none of the "Laugh-in" sketches were
more than two minutes in length; just as the best presentations are two
minutes, or less. In grammer, many people consider a sentence to be seven
words; after that you've lost your audience. This I get from a very
interesting lecture by Suzette Haden Elgen; back in 1985, at Archon. This
explains all those books with the subject-predicate, no adjectives, no
clauses, not semi-colons, Dick and Jane type novels that are out there. An
interesting thing is that, apparently, Ernest Hemingway wrote very
decriptive prose; which his editor then chopped into little pieces.
So, I am trying to write novels, on a computer that will only accept
windows programs; using Word '98, or some such thing; and I spend more time
ignoreing the grammer checks than I do trying to use the spell check. I
really do wish that I was back on the old word processing DOS program, with
the large dictionary (it even recognized "Tardis" and "Dalek".) with
Canadian spellings. sigh.

Hmmmmmmm, Dr. Suess is responsible for getting the "Dick and Jane" books
thrown out of the school system; too bad he couldn't have tried his hand at
a word processing program, aimed at novelists.

Peace
Alixandra
eddana@hotmail.com
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I use grammar checkers to go over articles I'm writing. If it is
supposed to be a beginner's article and it is rated much over 6th
grade then I've probably gone over their heads. If it is a more
technical piece then I want a more complicated structure.

Remember, just because a grammar checker recommends a change,
doesn't mean you have to accept it. I do know that I sometimes
get into a "passive" mode and it can get to be too much. And
sometimes I get too simplistic and I end up compounding a few
more sentences to beef it up.

For novels, I would only use it to look for run on and incomplete
sentences. Even then I'd be cautious.

Also remember that the levels on the best grammar checkers can be
set. There is more formal and less formal, technical, and even
manual tweaking.

It's a tool, like the spell checker or even the word processor.
The most important tool is still the one between the ears. <g>

Lisa

Alix Jordan wrote:

> Dear Pierre:
>
> >Another annoying
> >feature is the "grammar checker." The one on Word, for
> instance, absolutely
> >hates the passive voice, doesn't recognize implied subjects,
> and apparently
> >believes everyone should write like a 6th grader.
>
> Tell me about it! I'm trying to write novels, and the
> computer wants me
> to write Dick and Jane; or memos; or something. The problem is
> that it was
> set up to handle the stuff that bosses send to their typists.
> Having a
> sister who used to do word processing, I can tell you that most
> executives
> seem to be totally incapable of writing/dictating a simple
> sentence. sigh.
>
> Peace
> Alixandra
> eddana@hotmail.com
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>
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>

Deadline reminder: Unless you're going to hand me the designs at LosCon
this weekend in Burbank, California... this is the end of this contest.

Though of you who submitted at the last moment... THANK YOU, THANK YOU,
THANK YOU!!!!!!! We got enough for a folio!!!!! (It was a real squeaker
for a bit.)

Just on the silly side... the last entry to come in... and it came in via
computer... was the Pettinger's "Member of the Electoral College". They
solved the problem, there is a vote tabulating computer on the costume for
up to the second counts... and not a chad on it???

I couldn't figure out whether it gets an award or... (I'll leave it to the
list to think of something suitable while I'm away at LosCon).

BTW, spelling checkers do not have the word "chad" in it... or at least the
old ones don't. Also the regular dictionaries considered dropping "chad"
out of the dictionary this last round because it was never used anymore.

-Cat-
(you can tell I've been up to late packing for a convention.)

2+2=4

That's the best I can do at the moment!

(Sorry - couldn't resist...)

Cheers,

Betsy

Byron Connell wrote:

>
> I'll be back on 12/4. Solve something in my absence.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Byron

--
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large
WebInvent.com, Inc.

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************************************************************************

Dear Lisa:

>Also remember that the levels on the best grammar checkers can be
>set. There is more formal and less formal, technical, and even
>manual tweaking.
>
> The only problem with that, is that I'm not the one programing the darn
>thing. I didn't even get a say in which type of computer I go. As it is,
>my computer sits in the bedroom; never gets turned off, because if it does
>all the programing goes away, somewhere; and I used the one in the living
>room, that is supposed to belong to Linda's husband, but is the only one of
>the three that will do as it's told. And Linda's son lives in it, because
>it is the only one with internet, and he'd just die without his chat
>rooms...so, I'm not doing much writing now; but the 0=(&*&(*^&*^&#*&&*
>program even edits my shopping lists. sigh...one of these days.

Peace
Alixandra
eddana@hotmail.com
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Dear Ken and anyone who likes the exhibit at the Walters:

Down at the National Gallery they are currently running a special exhibit
on Art Nouveau, which got a gorgeous write up in the Smithsonian magazine
and looks great. Makes a very good twin to the Orientalist art, and it's
even the same time period, more or less.

Yours in costuming, Lisa A.
Think of me Sat. morning at 6 am--1 hour before dawn, out in the cold,
waiting patiently, for the start of Maryland deer season
________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

This is just a natural progression of the "who has the biggest fabric stash"

Now it's sewing machines. Next it will be sergers.

Nova

> From: "Christopher Ballis"
> Hell, is this gonna degenerate into a who has the biggest...sewing machine collection? -C
>

.


--
I don't need any exercise program. I get enough exercise pushing my
luck, flying off the handle and jumping to conclusions.

http://myweb.li.net/~nova/

Dear Cat:

BTW, spelling checkers do not have the word "chad" in it... or at least the

>old ones don't. Also the regular dictionaries considered dropping "chad"
>out of the dictionary this last round because it was never used anymore.
>
>-Cat-
>(you can tell I've been up to late packing for a convention.)

That's why you need a copy of the old edition of the OED (Oxford
English Dictionary).

Peace
Alixandra
eddana@hotmail.com
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Yes I finally made them. Lots and lots of them.

Check out the list of Announcements and Updates at
http://www.costume.org

JohnO
ICG Web/ListMaster

Hi All,

I thought I'd tap into this potential source of information - ICG's
collective knowledge!

In French

CGUK recently had an enquiry from a French lady (living in France!) who
wanted some more information on costuming groups, as she couldn't find
anything local. She'd also not found much in the way of costume books
written in or translated into French.

So, are any of the people on this list fluent French writers?
Or know of any costumers who are?
Can you recommend any costuming books written or translated into French?

Ballgowns

We're also getting a lot of queries about Ballgowns (it seems to be on this
year's GCSE syllabus). So, if any of you can recommend anything on the
history of ballgowns please let me know.
(GCSE - that's 15/16 year olds, and yes, we do suggest the local public
library)

Many thanks

Marion Byott (CGUK Membership Secretary/Treasurer)

No, Betsy, 12/4 = 3. Byron will either be back in 3 days or he'll be back on the 3rd.

Bruno

>2+2=4
>
>That's the best I can do at the moment!
>
>(Sorry - couldn't resist...)
>
>Cheers,
>
>Betsy
>
>Byron Connell wrote:
>>
>> I'll be back on 12/4. Solve something in my absence.

Let's move on, shall we? This topic is wearing out my delete key.
Gristle P.

Alix Jordan wrote:

> Dear Pierre:
>
> >Another annoying
> >feature is the "grammar checker." The one on Word, for instance, absolutely
> >hates the passive voice, doesn't recognize implied subjects, and apparently
> >believes everyone should write like a 6th grader.
>
> Tell me about it! I'm trying to write novels, and the computer wants me
> to write Dick and Jane; or memos; or something. The problem is that it was
> set up to handle the stuff that bosses send to their typists. Having a
> sister who used to do word processing, I can tell you that most executives
> seem to be totally incapable of writing/dictating a simple sentence. sigh.
>
> Peace
> Alixandra
> eddana@hotmail.com
> _____________________________________________________________________________________
> Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ICG-D-unsubscribe@egroups.com

> When a friend began to write books for a british publisher, he was sent not
> only a UK spell checker, but also a list of questionable words. These were
> words that, while innocent enough in most of the anglophonic world, had some
> naughty secondary meanings in specific locales.

I actually got out of a bad grade on an English composition paper because of the
British spelling of the word color. My teacher dropped the grade of any paper
by a full letter for every 3 misspelled words. I had actually misspelled two
words, but the third word was "Colour". I whipped out a copy of one of Anne
McCaffery's dragon rider books and pointed out that I was in the middle of
reading a series of books written by a European author, published in the US and
using the "U" in the word. My teacher, reluctantly, gave me the A on the paper
for presenting a creative argument.

Different Strokes for Different Folks!
Hugs,
Susan - with an American Spell Checker

The crest was designed by Stephen Clark out of Denver. It was submitted in

>a design competition for an ICG crest that was held at CC8. Since it was
>submitted for such a competition whose express purpose was to choose a
>crest for the ICG, I see no problem. We own it. Technically, Byron might
>have to give permission, but if you're doing it as an official chapter, I
>see no problem.
>
>To mark this as the definitive answer, I ran that contest. I still have the
>original board of six designs that were submitted.
>
>Pierre
>

Thanks so much!

Actually, I was submitting it to Byron and the BOD as a fund-raising
suggestion for the ICG. I don't remember if we ever got a specific
committee for fund raising, but if the idea seems sound, I would offer to
head such an effort on my own.

If the BOD says OK, then I'll need lots of suggestions. If anyone else
wants to do it - please volunteer.

Elaine
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> >
> Not a sixth grader; an average executive.

This is not limited to executives. Try doctors, lawyers, etc. After the
specialists and researchers finish putting all the technical data onto our
standard responses, I get to turn them into a form understandable by the
average healthcare professional. They can put in the information, but not
in anything resembling "readability." It can be a challenge, as many of
them make sentences that would make most authors gasp for air.

Elaine
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> OK, now there are a few more questions:
>
> 1 - Who holds the rights to use it?
> 2 - Where is Steve, and how do we find him to find out?
> 3 - What uses can we make of it?
> and 4 - Is anyone (other than me) interested in taking on this project?
>
> Elaine

Ok, next question, is there a copy of this art work on the web somewhere? Could it be
used as a webpage link to the ICG's official web site???

Hugs,
Susan

>
> Now it's sewing machines. Next it will be sergers.
> Nova
> > Hell, is this gonna degenerate into a who has the biggest...sewing
> machine collection?

Real men don't serge.

-C.

-----------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP @ Netspace http://www.netspace.net.au/

Received a letter via International Mail.

Return address was:

I.B.S A.G.
P.O. Box 405
220 00 Praha 120
Rep. Tchegue

which is Prague.

I'm thinking a inquiry to the ICG.

Nope, when I opened it, it was from a company in Switzerland, offering
the ICG to be listed in some business directory.

For a only US$998. Yes, you read that right, nearly a thousand dollars
to be listed in a book.

Now the kicker, they want to list us in the "Psychiatric and Substance
Abuse Hospitals"

As a friend said "They're close. Costuming is an addiction, but the
ICG does not want to cure you of it." She also received one for her
domain, in the category "Religious Organizations." She figures her cat
agrees.

JohnO

In a message dated 11/24/00 6:49:18 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
eddana@hotmail.com writes:

>BTW, spelling checkers do not have the word "chad" in it... or at least the
>old ones don't.  Also the regular dictionaries considered dropping "chad"
>out of the dictionary this last round because it was never used anymore.

I thought "Dimpled Chad" was going to be the most popular doll this Christmas.

Randall

>
>
>Just on the silly side... the last entry to come in... and it came in via
>computer... was the Pettinger's "Member of the Electoral College". They
>solved the problem, there is a vote tabulating computer on the costume for
>up to the second counts... and not a chad on it???

I suppose we could tweak the description to read that the tassel on the
tabulator is constructed with strung chads.

Pity we didn't have time to come up with vestments from the order of St.
Chad (who is a real Catholic saint, by the way)


Pierre & Sandy

Warning this goes way off topic before I drag it back again.

This is fairly standard question any computer geek gets this time of
year, so I figure this is a good place to post my standard answer.

Jeff & Susan Stringer wrote:

>
> > It were I learned to sew and make SCA costumes.
> >
> > I killed 2 sewing machines. One literally went up
> > in flames as I was sewing the long seams of a cloak.
> >
> > JohnO
>
> WOW John! We've all heard that "nessisity is the mother of invention"
> but it sounds like you learned to sew to stay sain.

It's also called boredom.

> hanging out at the proffitable pubs, although I bet
> they did make a nice side trip ;-)

Who me? <grin>

> Off Topic:
>
> BTW, I know you are a techno ghod, so what is your oppinion
> on a good new computer?

I've long switched my attitude to recommend a "name" brand.

What you pay extra for the name, you get back in warranty
and peace of mind.

> We are looking at the Dell 8100 for $2K. It has a Pent
> FOUR with 1.4 Ghrts, 128 Megs Ram, Several Gigs of HD
> (don't remimber, see www.Dell4me.com) 56K modum and a
> free upgrade to a DVD player if ordered before Nov 28th.

Major Hot Rod drool factor.

> What do you think? Is it too much money for the Hottest,
> Newest thing that will be crap in 4 or 5 years?

I use cars as a metaphor for computers and ask a question that should be
asked before you go out and buy one.

What are going to do with it?

daily commute/errends = word processing/surfing
long haul/cargo = station wagon/pickup
fast/sporty = games
suv/big truck = big files/graphics processing

If all you plan on doing is word processing/buisness stuff/surfing,
stick with the general purpose (P3/600, 64MB, 6GB) the Dell in the $800
range. Or buy 2 or even 3.

Gaming: Go for a faster processor, lots of ram and a good video card.

Lots of files: Lots of HD space

Working with large graphics, sound or video files, then stick with the
drool machine.

To bring back to the topic of costuming...

Going to run your costume store on it? Make sure you can
deduct/depresiate it. Check with your accountant/tax advisor about when
you should spend the money and how much you can spend.

Going to switch to cad for you costume design? CPU is not the
bottleneck, memory and HD is. Lots of ram & HD is needed and a good
video card.

Audio for presentations? Good sound card, ram, fast HD, video doesn't
matter.

Still graphics? I still use a P2/166 w/ 64MB ram, true color 2D card.
Unless you are working with extremely large files.

Monitor? As big and flat as you can afford.

I strongly recommend a CD-ROM or CD-RW drive to save/share the files you
generate.

DVD is still a year away from being needed, but if it's free...

Hope this helps.
JohnO

If we get to the point of wanting to do anything screen printed or
embroidered (especially embroidered), we know someone who is a (sort of)
costumer (he's worn one of ours) in Texas who has a printing and embroidery
business. For those of you at Chicon, he's the guy in the corner of the
dealer's room who was selling all the Bujold and Weber shirts and
stuff. He's got the exclusive license from David Weber, don't know about
Lois. He said he had just gotten one of the big commercial embroidery
machines - we bought the black denim jackets with the manticore on the back.

Just some thoughts.

P & S

I defer to you, sir. You are far cleverer than I...

<snicker, guffaw, and grin>

-b

Timothy wrote:

>
> No, Betsy, 12/4 = 3. Byron will either be back in 3 days or he'll be back on the 3rd.
>
> Bruno

--
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large
WebInvent.com, Inc.

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************************************************************************

>I actually got out of a bad grade on an English composition paper because
>of the
>British spelling of the word color. My teacher dropped the grade of any
>paper
>by a full letter for every 3 misspelled words. I had actually misspelled
>two
>words, but the third word was "Colour". I whipped out a copy of one of
>Anne
>McCaffery's dragon rider books and pointed out that I was in the middle of
>reading a series of books written by a European author, published in the US
>and
>using the "U" in the word. My teacher, reluctantly, gave me the A on the
>paper
>for presenting a creative argument.
>
>Different Strokes for Different Folks!
>Hugs,
>Susan - with an American Spell Checker
>

I love it!

When my older son got an "F" in English Lit. because his version of
limericks came out a tad off-"colour", he got it raised to a "C" (all it was
really worth) by bringing in a British definative work on the history of
limericks - and a few of Isaac Asimov's hand-written and signed (and rather
bawdy!) original ones in some of my books!

They just can't fight with the experts!

Elaine

_____________________________________________________________________________________
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>
>Ok, next question, is there a copy of this art work on the web somewhere?
>Could it be
>used as a webpage link to the ICG's official web site???
>
>Hugs,
>Susan
>

I know Byron has an electronic copy of it. Ask him and JohnO if that's
possible. However, I'd like to see it protected from copying so we can use
it to raise $$$$$$!

E
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>If we get to the point of wanting to do anything screen printed or
>embroidered (especially embroidered), we know someone who is a (sort of)
>costumer (he's worn one of ours) in Texas who has a printing and embroidery
>business. For those of you at Chicon, he's the guy in the corner of the
>dealer's room who was selling all the Bujold and Weber shirts and
>stuff. He's got the exclusive license from David Weber, don't know about
>Lois. He said he had just gotten one of the big commercial embroidery
>machines - we bought the black denim jackets with the manticore on the
>back.
>
>Just some thoughts.
>
>P & S
>

Ma & Dwayne Elms and Julia & Richard Hyll have them, too. We might try to
keep it in the family, as it were.

E
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Dear Susan:

>middle of
>reading a series of books written by a European author, published in the US
>and
>using the "U" in the word.

Just to be picky. Anne McCaffery is an American author, living in
Ireland, because it is "3,000 miles away from my ex-husband" (quote from a
question and answer period, during a signing at the Spaced Out Library, in
Toronto, back in the eighties).

Peace
Alixandra
eddana@hotmail.com
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Dear Elaine:


Try doctors, lawyers, etc.

Aside from not understanding a word that they say, or write, there's the
handwriting thing. I had a doctor, in Brampton, whose hand writing was so
poor, that the labs, and pharmacists were constantly phoneing to ask what
the slips said, since they couldn't even begin to guess what he meant.
And there was the woman, who sued her doctor, because she had wanted
birth control pills, but the scrawl looked like a prescription for
viatmins...nine months later...
The sad thing is that neither of these is a joke.

Peace
Alixandra
eddana@hotmail.com
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As many of you know, Peggy Kennedy has been battling cancer for over a year
now. Two weeks ago she took a fall and had to be admitted to the hospital.
When she was tested, more brain lesions were found. There are not a lot of
treatment options.

Peggy is currently in the Marquis Care Center in Portland. The outlook isn't
good and she's getting noticeably weaker. They've moved her into
"intermediate" care where she will have more staff attention but she would
really like to hear from her friends. She says she knows that no one knows
what to say at a time like this, and that the answer is she would like
emails that let her know what's going on in the costuming world. She also
said to say that she doesn't feel energetic enough to reply necessarily,
however, and wants people to understand that. In other words, Peggy is very
much her elegant and pragmatic self.

Her email address is: peggykennedy@involved.com (Peggy Kennedy)

Her snailmail address is:

Margaret Kennedy Rm. #328 (----note room # change----)
c/o Marquis Care Center
6040 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97215

Please let her know that she's in your thoughts.

Patty Wells patty@teleport.com
Brenna Sharp raven@xprt.net

There are two bids for Costume-Con 22 (in 2004):

Atlanta, Georgia and Salt Lake City, Utah.

Site Selection will take place at Costume-Con 19, and bid materials will
be posted in the next week or so on the Costume-ConNections web site.

Site selection is limited to Attending and Supporting members of
Costume-Con 19. Ballots will be mailed to members in a future Progress
Report. If you want to express your opinion, consider supporting CC19!

Please let me know if you have any questions about the process.

Thanks!

Betsy Delaney
Site Selection Commissioner, CC19
Costume-Con Archivist

--
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large
WebInvent.com, Inc.

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************************************************************************

After a 3-year hiatus, the masquerade returned to LosCon on Saturday,
November 25. When the lights went down on a standing-room-only
crowd, there were 28 entries to grace the stage, 14 of whom were
novices.

Master of Ceremonies: Bob Eggleton
Judges: Kelly Freas, Laura Bodian Freas, Elizabeth Gerds, Sue Dawe
Workmanship: Elizabeth Gerds

WORKMANSHIP AWARDS

Best Non-Human Accessories: "Top Hat Fairy," Countess Luna

Best Heavy Construction: "A Hysterical Survey of Ladies Foundation
Garments," Acronym

Best Headress, Fabric: "Sister of the Flame," Susan "Arizona" Gleason

Best Headress, Leather: "Crone Y2K," Bonnie Long-Hemsath

Best Group Vacuforming: So Cal 501st Star Wars Garrison

Best Machine Embroidery: "Visit to the Overworld," Jonna Lynn-Hall

Best Master Vacuforming: "Dream Knight," Talin

Best Vinylwork: "Devil Girl Kat," Kat Hedges

Best Leatherwork: "Blood and Multiverse." Gail Bondi and Bill
Ernoehazy

PRESENTATION AWARDS

Best "Mommy-Made": "Princess Peach Toadstool from Mario Brothers,"
worn by Jennifer Sevigny, made by Diane Sevigny

Most Brave (Child): "Confused," made and worn by Sherry Hennig

Best Child Recreation: "Sailor Venus." worn by Lauren Sevigny, made
by Diane Sevigny

Best Self-Made (Child): "Burna Boyz," made and worn by John Bondi-
Ernoehazy, with assistance from William S. Ernoehazy

Most Effective Use of the Force: "The Jedi," made and worn by Mikie
Lujan and Ed Shaw, lightsabers by Jeff Park.

Judge's Choice, Animation: "She's Back!" made and worn by Kathy
Sanders

Best Makeup: "Zhoan - Farscape." made and worn by Sali Wynants,
makeup by Cathy Udovch

Best Recreation, Novice: "Demona, Puck and Bronx," made and worn by
Jennifer Anderson, Patrick Toman, and Rosemary Morgenstern

Best Recreation, Television: "Sister of the Flame," made and worn by
Susan "Arizona" Gleason

Best Recreation, Movie: So Cal 501st Star Wars Garrison

Best Techno: "Tubular Trekking," made and worn by Denise Winter

Best of Class, Novice: "Devil Girl Kat," made and worn by Kat Hedges
and Tyler Gelvin

Most Beautiful, Journeyman: "Crone Y2K," made and worn by Bonnie Long-
Hemsath

Most Beautiful, Master: "Dream Knight," Talin

Best in Show: "A Hysterical Survey of Ladies Foundation Garments,"
worn by Kate Morgenstern, Arabella Davis, Cat Slater, Sandra
Childress, Bridget Landry, and Bruce Briant. Made by Acronym


Please note that names are not listed for the "So Cal 501st Star Wars
Garrison" because I only have six people listed on the form and they
ultimately fielded over 15 people on stage. Apparently, the hall
costume judges convinced some of them to be in the masquerade and
they got on the phone to their friends -- including their Darth
Vader, who really is the correct height.

The good news is that because of the response to this event, next
year's chairman has agreed to let the masquerade go forward again
next year.

Carolyn Louaillier
Masquerade Director, Loscon 27
carowriter@earthlink.net

Hahahaha! I didn't know that! I knew she lived in Ireland, but did not know her
country of origin. I met her, briefly, at a convention many years ago and got my first
three Pern books double autographed by Ms. McCaffery and Michael Whelan. She was such a
charming guest that I suggested strongly to other con-coms to invite her. Finally, one
of my friends explained that she is almost impossible to get because she does not fly.
Therefore, a convention must book her passage on boats and trains, which is always
expensive & rarely feasible.

Thanks for the correction!

Hugs,
Susan

> Just to be picky. Anne McCaffery is an American author, living in
> Ireland, because it is "3,000 miles away from my ex-husband" (quote from a
> question and answer period, during a signing at the Spaced Out Library, in
> Toronto, back in the eighties).
>
> Peace
> Alixandra

> There are two bids for Costume-Con 22 (in 2004):
>
> Atlanta, Georgia and Salt Lake City, Utah.

KEWL! Atlanta is less than a 2 hour drive for me! That would be tons of
fun. Hmmm, but 2004? By the time I do WorldCon in Charlotte (fingers
crossed) and then DragonCon.... How much does CostumeCon cost? :-)))

BTW - Here's a good question for you guys.

What's the ICG platform on entering the same costume in multiple contests?

Many years ago, it was quite common to make a costume and take it "on tour"
or "make the circuit" for about a year. Back then, we had about 6 small to
medium sized conventions within a 3 hour car trip of Chattanooga, the Hub of
Con-dom, in Knoxville, Nashville, Atlanta, Birmingham and Huntsville. They
used to say that you couldn't compete the same costume at a small convention
that had already won at a larger, regional con, but as long as you kept
"moving up" it was ok.

Such as, if we got the chance, Jeff & I would "preview" a costume at
Chattacon in January then work out the kinks and take it to MOC or DragonCon
and no one cared. But folks tend to frown on us bringing the winning
costume from DragonCon to Chattacon the following year, even if did not get
"previewed" there. Around the SouthEast, if a costume wins at DragonCon,
the only PC thing to do is retire it or demote it to a Hall Costume.

What about CostumeCon & World Con? Is multiple showings of the same costume
allowed? Is it just considered tacky, or is there currently a rule against
it? What about costumes that have been previously shown at other, smaller
conventions? Is it ok if they didn't win or if they have been revised
either in design or presentation?

I ask now, not to stir up controversy, but because if Charlotte wins, I'll
have to know what to tell people. If Atlanta wins CostumeCon, I need to
know if I can use the same costume for myself that I will use at DragonCon.
BTW - DragonCon is NOT an ICG sanctioned show, but it IS larger than
WorldCon with attendance of 20,000 fans and 30-50 entries in the
Masquerade. Guys & gals, Dragon is HUGE! (See www.DragonCon.org - D*C
History for information.) What I'm getting at is this: If it's ok to use a
costume at WorldCon that has been seen/shown/award winning at "smaller"
conventions, what about DragonCon Winners?

Just Need to Know,
Hugs,
Susan

In a message dated 11/27/2000 8:35:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Stringer@cdc.net writes:

<snip>

>
> I ask now, not to stir up controversy, but because if Charlotte wins, I'll
> have to know what to tell people. If Atlanta wins CostumeCon, I need to
> know if I can use the same costume for myself that I will use at DragonCon.
> BTW - DragonCon is NOT an ICG sanctioned show, but it IS larger than
> WorldCon with attendance of 20,000 fans and 30-50 entries in the
> Masquerade. Guys & gals, Dragon is HUGE! (See www.DragonCon.org - D*C
> History for information.) What I'm getting at is this: If it's ok to use

a

> costume at WorldCon that has been seen/shown/award winning at "smaller"
> conventions, what about DragonCon Winners?
>
> Just Need to Know,
> Hugs,
> Susan
>

My understanding is that the ICG bylaws place Worldcon and CostumeCon in a
class unto themselves, and a DragonCon winner can legitamately be competed up
to them. However as always, the final decision belongs to the Masquerade
Director of that particular Con.
John Syms

>KEWL! Atlanta is less than a 2 hour drive for me! That would be tons of
>fun. Hmmm, but 2004? By the time I do WorldCon in Charlotte (fingers
>crossed) and then DragonCon.... How much does CostumeCon cost? :-)))

Actually, I think the line up would be Costume Con, Dragon Con, then World Con. Quite a busy costume schedule.

Personally, I've often wondered why DragonCon was not considered an International level competition on the same level as Costume Con and World Con. Perhaps, the standing rules could be amended to recognize Dragon.

Bruno

That's a good question. There was a recent debate, shortly before you
joined, I think, regarding competing at a Worldcon and then CC or vice
versa. While in the past, there was a lot of resistance to allowing a
Worldcon compete at CC (almost like sandbagging, even if they're both
International level), the consensus seems to be changing to the point that
it's up to the individual MD. this came about in response to the dropping
numbers of Worldcon entries who were going to CC to compete instead.

Two different venues. One for one's peers, one for a larger audience. Why
not let them compete at both? That way, both venues benefit.

Bruce

Bruce and Nora Mai
Costuming and Cats -- It must be Casa Mai!
http://members.xoom.com/CasaMai/casamai/splashx.html

>
> BTW - Here's a good question for you guys.
>
> What's the ICG platform on entering the same costume in multiple contests?
>
> Many years ago, it was quite common to make a costume and take it "on

tour"

> or "make the circuit" for about a year. Back then, we had about 6 small

to

> medium sized conventions within a 3 hour car trip of Chattanooga, the Hub

of

> Con-dom, in Knoxville, Nashville, Atlanta, Birmingham and Huntsville.

They

> used to say that you couldn't compete the same costume at a small

convention

> that had already won at a larger, regional con, but as long as you kept
> "moving up" it was ok.
>
> Such as, if we got the chance, Jeff & I would "preview" a costume at
> Chattacon in January then work out the kinks and take it to MOC or

DragonCon

> and no one cared. But folks tend to frown on us bringing the winning
> costume from DragonCon to Chattacon the following year, even if did not

get

> "previewed" there. Around the SouthEast, if a costume wins at DragonCon,
> the only PC thing to do is retire it or demote it to a Hall Costume.
>
> What about CostumeCon & World Con? Is multiple showings of the same

costume

> allowed? Is it just considered tacky, or is there currently a rule

against

> it? What about costumes that have been previously shown at other, smaller
> conventions? Is it ok if they didn't win or if they have been revised
> either in design or presentation?
>
> I ask now, not to stir up controversy, but because if Charlotte wins, I'll
> have to know what to tell people. If Atlanta wins CostumeCon, I need to
> know if I can use the same costume for myself that I will use at

DragonCon.

> BTW - DragonCon is NOT an ICG sanctioned show, but it IS larger than
> WorldCon with attendance of 20,000 fans and 30-50 entries in the
> Masquerade. Guys & gals, Dragon is HUGE! (See www.DragonCon.org - D*C
> History for information.) What I'm getting at is this: If it's ok to use

a

> costume at WorldCon that has been seen/shown/award winning at "smaller"
> conventions, what about DragonCon Winners?
>
> Just Need to Know,
> Hugs,
> Susan
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ICG-D-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>

I don't know the actual dates yet - I'm expecting to receive the
materials from both bids within the week.

As soon as I know more, I'll post it!

Cheers,

Betsy

Timothy wrote:

>
> >KEWL! Atlanta is less than a 2 hour drive for me! That would be tons of
> >fun. Hmmm, but 2004? By the time I do WorldCon in Charlotte (fingers
> >crossed) and then DragonCon.... How much does CostumeCon cost? :-)))
>
> Actually, I think the line up would be Costume Con, Dragon Con, then World Con. Quite a busy costume schedule.
>
> Personally, I've often wondered why DragonCon was not considered an International level competition on the same level as Costume Con and World Con. Perhaps, the standing rules could be amended to recognize Dragon.
>
> Bruno

--
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large
WebInvent.com, Inc.

************************************************************************
mailto:WebInvent@WebInvent.com or visit http://www.WebInvent.com/
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mailto:betsy@hawkeswood.com or visit http://www.hawkeswood.com/
************************************************************************

------Original Message------
From: "Timothy" <plastic@mail.codenet.net>
To: ICG-D@egroups.com
Sent: November 28, 2000 3:25:21 AM GMT
Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Multi Use Costume Question

>....Personally, I've often wondered why DragonCon was not considered an

International level competition on the same level as Costume Con and World
Con. Perhaps, the standing rules could be amended to recognize Dragon."

In principle, I don't see why not. I *believe* that they might not, in the
past, been recognized due to fallout from the ... ahem... controversy that
has surrounded D*con, and Atlanta fandom, in the SF-fannish community.

Not, strictly speaking, a costumers' problem.

Older, wiser heads care to add insight?

cordially, dr. Bill

Don't know about competing, but by then, won't Worldcon and Dragon*con be
on the same weekend? Didn't Dragon say this year that they would be
"permanently" moving to Labor Day weekend in the future? Please correct me
if I'm misremembering.

Sandy

>KEWL! Atlanta is less than a 2 hour drive for me! That would be tons of
>fun. Hmmm, but 2004? By the time I do WorldCon in Charlotte (fingers
>crossed) and then DragonCon.... How much does CostumeCon cost? :-)))
>
>BTW - Here's a good question for you guys.
>
>I ask now, not to stir up controversy, but because if Charlotte wins, I'll
>have to know what to tell people. If Atlanta wins CostumeCon, I need to
>know if I can use the same costume for myself that I will use at DragonCon.
>BTW - DragonCon is NOT an ICG sanctioned show, but it IS larger than
>WorldCon with attendance of 20,000 fans and 30-50 entries in the
>Masquerade. Guys & gals, Dragon is HUGE! (See www.DragonCon.org - D*C
>History for information.) What I'm getting at is this: If it's ok to use a
>costume at WorldCon that has been seen/shown/award winning at "smaller"
>conventions, what about DragonCon Winners?

Ok, Let's see if I'm smart enough to reply to several replies in one shot.  #1, Thanks everyone for the info.
 
 

Personally, I've often wondered why DragonCon was not considered an International level
competition on the same level as Costume Con and World Con.  Perhaps, the standing rules could
be amended to recognize Dragon.

Bruno

Dragon has only been this Huge for about 5 years, not long enough to be well established as a convention with a regular pull of costuming talent to be considered in the same running as CostumeCon & WorldCon which are, well, special.  Maybe the problem is that age old Chicken & the Egg problem.  Why don't more Master Costumers compete at Dragon?  Because there aren't many Masters there.  They also have rather strange judging rules.  There are only two categories, Master/Pro costume and other.  The Master Class is normally eligible only for the Best In Show or nothing at all.  Lots of Masters don't like that and stopped competing.  Personally, I think if the ICG were to consider sanctioning the show, it would do a great deal to upgrade the quality of costuming at Dragon.  But, that's just me, and the ICG has better things to do.

My understanding is that the ICG bylaws place Worldcon and CostumeCon in a
  class unto themselves, and a DragonCon winner can legitamately be competed up
  to them. However as always, the final decision belongs to the Masquerade
  Director of that particular Con.
                                                          John Syms

   Glad to know you can move up from Dragon Masque to WC or CC.
 

<Snip> the consensus seems to be changing to the point that
it's up to the individual MD.   this came about in response to the dropping
numbers of Worldcon entries who were going to CC to compete instead.

Two different venues.  One for one's peers, one for a larger audience.  Why
not let them compete at both?  That way, both venues benefit.

Bruce

GREAT!  That means if I end up Masque Mistress at Charlotte 2004, and pick the unpopular response, everyone gets to yell at me.  Thanks a bunch :-(  But I happen to agree with Bruce, more costumes make for better shows and increases the quality of competition.  Besides, we spend a Ton o' Money on these things, I think they deserve to be seen more than once.

Ooops, time to get ready for work!

Hugs,
Susan

Oops! Didn't read this as closely the first time. It's the Guidelines
for Competition, not the By-Laws, that discuss the competitions accepted
as international level by the ICG.

See http://www.costume.org/admin/guidelines.txt for more information on
these Guidelines.

Cheers,

Betsy

JPSyms@aol.com wrote:

>
> My understanding is that the ICG bylaws place Worldcon and CostumeCon in a
> class unto themselves, and a DragonCon winner can legitamately be competed up
> to them. However as always, the final decision belongs to the Masquerade
> Director of that particular Con.
> John Syms
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ICG-D-unsubscribe@egroups.com

--
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large
WebInvent.com, Inc.

************************************************************************
mailto:WebInvent@WebInvent.com or visit http://www.WebInvent.com/
mailto:Costume-Con@Costume-Con.org or visit http://www.Costume-Con.org/
mailto:betsy@hawkeswood.com or visit http://www.hawkeswood.com/
************************************************************************

A Fund Raising Committee was formed but I believe it's unstaffed.

Sharon

--- In ICG-D@egroups.com, "Elaine Mami" <ecmami@h...> wrote:
>
>
> The crest was designed by Stephen Clark out of Denver. It was
submitted in
> >a design competition for an ICG crest that was held at CC8. Since
it was
> >submitted for such a competition whose express purpose was to
choose a
> >crest for the ICG, I see no problem. We own it. Technically, Byron
might
> >have to give permission, but if you're doing it as an official
chapter, I
> >see no problem.
> >
> >To mark this as the definitive answer, I ran that contest. I still
have the
> >original board of six designs that were submitted.
> >
> >Pierre
> >
> Thanks so much!
>
> Actually, I was submitting it to Byron and the BOD as a fund-
raising
> suggestion for the ICG. I don't remember if we ever got a specific
> committee for fund raising, but if the idea seems sound, I would
offer to
> head such an effort on my own.
>
> If the BOD says OK, then I'll need lots of suggestions. If anyone
else
> wants to do it - please volunteer.
>
> Elaine
>
______________________________________________________________________
_______________
> Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com

John,

I keep getting Amex applications for the Sick Pups Corporate Gold
card.

Sharon

--- In ICG-D@egroups.com, "ICG WebMaster - John O'Halloran"
<icg@c...> wrote:

> Received a letter via International Mail.
>
> Return address was:
>
> I.B.S A.G.
> P.O. Box 405
> 220 00 Praha 120
> Rep. Tchegue
>
> which is Prague.
>
> I'm thinking a inquiry to the ICG.
>
> Nope, when I opened it, it was from a company in Switzerland,

offering

> the ICG to be listed in some business directory.
>
> For a only US$998. Yes, you read that right, nearly a thousand

dollars

> to be listed in a book.
>
> Now the kicker, they want to list us in the "Psychiatric and

Substance

> Abuse Hospitals"
>
> As a friend said "They're close. Costuming is an addiction, but

the

> ICG does not want to cure you of it." She also received one for her
> domain, in the category "Religious Organizations." She figures her

cat

> agrees.
>
> JohnO

On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, Jeff & Susan Stringer wrote:

> They also have rather strange judging rules. There are only two categories,
> Master/Pro costume and other. The Master Class is normally eligible only for the
> Best In Show or nothing at all. Lots of Masters don't like that and stopped

Whatever possessed them to come up with such odd rules? (Who were they
trying to get rid of?)

Linda

mirhaxa@morktorn.com

>On Tue, 28 Nov 2000, Jeff & Susan Stringer wrote:
>> They also have rather strange judging rules. There are only two categories,
>> Master/Pro costume and other. The Master Class is normally eligible only for the
>> Best In Show or nothing at all. Lots of Masters don't like that and stopped
>
>Whatever possessed them to come up with such odd rules? (Who were they
>trying to get rid of?)
>
>Linda
>

Sounds like they were trying to encourage non-master entries. If the masters are only eligible for one award, it takes the pressure off the others. But from the pictures I've seen from Dragon, they have some excellent entries.

Bruno

My feeling is that CostumeCon and WorldCon are very different venues. Not
only is the audience different, but the competition space usually has a
different scale. Not every costume designed for one of the shows would
work unmodified at the other. I would support being able to compete a
costume at both of them.
As to considering any other Con "International", I would suggest we do not
do that. WorldCon is different from the other Science Fiction Conventions
because it not only draws audience from other countries, but can be held in
other countries. WorldCon also hosts the Hugos. This, too, makes it
special for those of us who are Science Fiction fans as well as
costumers. I think we need to respect the status of WorldCon as we ask
for the WorldCon com and attendees to respect us.
CostumeCon is similarly International.
It is not the attendance at the convention that gives it International
status. The size of the Cons and participation in the Masquerades vary,
and we seem (finally) to be seeing an increase.
Truly, size is not enough.
Dana

In a message dated 11/28/00 2:11:25 PM PST, plastic@mail.codenet.net writes:

> The Master Class is normally eligible only for the Best In Show or nothing

at all.

Many years ago, when skill divisions were a new thing, they decided to try
them out at Norwescon. And they decreed that Master class entries were
eligible for Best in Show _only_, and _only_ Master class entries were
eligible for Best in Show (follow?). Note: this rule was abandoned the next
year.

There were two Master entries. Me in a rather subtle (yes!) dark dramatic
presentation, and a group of my friends in a big bright sparkly flashy funny
presentation. So it was extremely obvious who was going to win, and who
wasn't, LONG before we even hit the stage. Add to that the fact that I'd
forgotten a part of my costume at home, and when I came out on stage they
played the wrong tape (I turned around and went off; they started again with
the right tape).

All in all, my most depressing masquerade experience. And it was one of (in
my opinion) my best costume efforts! Believe me, I don't go into any
masquerade expecting to win, but it's no fun knowing you're definitely not
going to win anything - no matter what!

Anyone care to share their worst experience?

--Julie Zetterberg

REPLY
you are right that was the way it was when it was setup

>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ICG-D-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>

> > They also have rather strange judging rules. There are only two
>categories,
> > Master/Pro costume and other. The Master Class is normally eligible
>only for the
> > Best In Show or nothing at all. Lots of Masters don't like that and
>stopped
>
>Whatever possessed them to come up with such odd rules? (Who were they
>trying to get rid of?)
>
>Linda
>
> mirhaxa@morktorn.com
>
>

At AussieCon the categories were Novice and Experienced. I don't know if
that was just because of small numbers or because a non-costumer was MD.

Chris, what about categories for CC-20?

Elaine

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