>Gee, I wonder if that's the "Sleeping Beauty" entry from legend that I've
>heard about. I've heard the tale of a dead on "Sleeping Beauty" entry that
>was seriously slammed by one of the judges; wings too small on fairies,
>hideous colors, etc, etc. It turned out that the judge had never seen the
>movie and didn't understand the entry.
>
>Bruno
>

Yup. That's the one.

E

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>I worked with the Artist GOH year before last at MileHiCon who was
>clear,concise, organized and understood the field. What was his name,
>Bruno? Linda

Linda,

Do you mean '99, or '98. '99 was my first year and the only judges I know of were Richard Elfman, Richard Wetmore and Valerie Oswald. I know that last year there was a guy who was trying to judge by Worldcon standards and the other judges didn't like him.

Bruno

PS: I'm going to try to start keeping a list of all these names for future reference for MD's who are forced by the concom to use one of the guest as a judge. At least they'll have a chance at picking a good one.

>
>REgarding Pierre and Sandy's comment about documentation "never having
>gotten to the judges"
>
>In general, I've noticed a problem with getting documentation to judges
>for these types of costumes--it is handed in to the Masq. registration
>desk along with the tape, and then what happens to it? Figuring that in
>any given masq. there are probably no more than a few recreations, why
>has this traditionally been such a problem ?
>
>Yours in costuming, Lisa A.

I think there are a few ways to handle this.

1- Have the judges' clerk check with the MD or tech staff for any
documentation

2- ask the green room director to send the judges' clerk to ask.........

3- when you talk with the MC in the green room, ask him/her to..........

Does this sound like I'm putting it back on you? I am, because stuff can
fall thru cracks purely by accident. We need to do our own follow-up
whenever we can.

E
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Bottom line: Try to prepare for anything that can go wrong.

I mean most costumer's carry a emergency sewing/patch kits in case
something rips, falls off, etc. A lot of costumer's I know also carry an
extra tape/CD of their music as a contingency. What's wrong with carrying a
duplicate set of your documentation in your kit bag, just in case. :)

I have also found being polite, cheerful, on time, fed, and just plain
having fun do not hurt your chances and greatly increases your luck for
somebody else to be looking after your well being. While being surly,
stressed out, late and hungry will put distance between you and the rest of
the crowd in a hurry.

Just a thought.

Bruce the Lesser

> <snip> I was furious,
> esp. since many costumers I respected told me they thought it was very
> unfair and that the costume was terrific. After all, costuming isn't
> just about glitz. It actually turned me off for quite a while; <Snip>
> Lisa A.

Yep, one really bad experience can stick in your craw for a long time. To
this day I have a bad taste in my mouth for SCA'ers. I know, one should not
tar them all with the same brush, but why are all the "Fashion Police" so
loud mouthed?

Back around 1981 or 2, when I was still married to my 1st husband, Danny, I
made us a pair of Arthur and Gweniere costumes from the Richard Harris
version of Camelot. We couldn't afford velvets, but I got some of those
really nice robe velour that look like velvet. I hand drew all the lions &
flor deli and appliquéd them to the tunic and cape. Mind you, this was long
before Wonder under and it took a million pins to hold it all in place and I
trimmed every scrap & thread with tiny manicure scissors to get around all
the little details. I could not afford enough velvet/velour to make the full
skirts, so I made the bodice red velour & the skirt was royal blue taffeta
instead of quartered the way they did it in the film of the play. I fretted
greatly about changing the colors on the dress, but Arthur looked so good, I
didn't think anyone would care.

Wrong. One of the judges was an old time SCA'er. He started lecturing me
that Arthur PENDRAGON never wore Lions and that Flor De Le (pardon me for not
spelling French, but you guys know, the stylized Irises) were Not invented
until 500 years later in FRANCE!!! He got louder and more angry with each
point. I lost my mind. I started shrieking at him that if he would READ the
forms he would see that the costume was a RECREATION of a costume worn by
Richard Harris who was a BIG STAR and that He (the judge) was NOT a star!
Further I shouted that as Arthur was a fictional character that no one could
say WHEN he lived much less what he wore and the statue in England was
wearing quartered Lions & Flor De Le and that he should do his damned
research. Needless to say, we didn't get any awards.

Hugs,
Susan

Nice Site, but they NEED more costume pictures! Let's all send him some ;-)

Hugs,
Susan

Nebula5@aol.com wrote:

> I love this site: http://www.fanac.org/worldcon/
>
> They're collecting information, photos, and artifacts from past worldcons,
> and posting them for all to see. I've provided a few photos myself, and
> added some captions or corrections.

Dear Lisa:


n general, I've noticed a problem with getting documentation to judges

>for these types of costumes--it is handed in to the Masq. registration
>desk along with the tape, and then what happens to it?

I handed in my usual five part form, this year, as always. The only
pages that reached their proper destination were the one cover form, and the
one for the Tech crew; everything else was stapled to the tech crew forms.
Fortunately, I got them before the tech crew destroyed them. I had to find
the workmanship judge, and give her her copy; hunt up the MC, and find the
Green Room organizer, so that I could make certain that my documention went
to the judges. All it takes is one person to screw everything up...sigh.

Peace
Alixandra
eddana@hotmail.com
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Dear Elaine:

>And how about their tendency to "forget" to come back from dinner with
>their
>editors or whomever.
>

That happened several years running, in Toronto. The concom would assign
someone to take the judges out to dinner (away from the hotel), then that
person would forget to pick them up again. It might have helped if some of
the divers had been in the pro-masquerade group.

Peace
Alixandra
eddana@hotmail.com
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Dear Timothy:


PS: I'm going to try to start keeping a list of all these names for future
reference for MD's who are forced by the concom to use one of the guest as a
judge. At least they'll have a chance at picking a good one.

I've heard of Masquerade directors getting around this by telling the
guest judge that he/she could pick their favourite to get a "judge's
choice", or "Author's Choice" award; and simply ignore the person, for the
rest of the time.

Peace
Alixandra
eddana@hotmail.com
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You good buddy has also not read the damned book.

"Camelot" was based on TH White's "Once and Future King" tetralogy, which was
a ----FANTASY--- retelling of the arthurian story set in what amounts to an
alternate universe. In White's "England of Gramarye," Uther Pendragon takes
the place of William the Conqueror. Hence the story is set in the 12th
Century and Plantagenet lions are very appropriate.

Randall
Waxing Literary

In a message dated 11/30/00 8:44:19 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
Stringer@cdc.net writes:

Back around 1981 or 2, when I was still married to my 1st husband, Danny, I
made us a pair of Arthur and Gweniere costumes from the Richard Harris
version of Camelot.  We couldn't afford velvets, but I got some of those
really nice robe velour that look like velvet.  I hand drew all the lions &
flor deli and appliquéd them to the tunic and cape.  Mind you, this was long
before Wonder under and it took a million pins to hold it all in place and I
trimmed every scrap & thread with tiny manicure scissors to get around all
the little details.  I could not afford enough velvet/velour to make the
full
skirts, so I made the bodice red velour & the skirt was royal blue taffeta
instead of quartered the way they did it in the film of the play.  I fretted
greatly about changing the colors on the dress, but Arthur looked so good, I
didn't think anyone would care.

Wrong.  One of the judges was an old time SCA'er.  He started lecturing me
that Arthur PENDRAGON never wore Lions and that Flor De Le (pardon me for
not
spelling French, but you guys know, the stylized Irises) were Not invented
until 500 years later in FRANCE!!!  He got louder and more angry with each
point.  I lost my mind.  I started shrieking at him that if he would READ
the
forms he would see that the costume was a RECREATION of a costume worn by
Richard Harris who was a BIG STAR and that He (the judge) was NOT a star!
Further I shouted that as Arthur was a fictional character that no one could
say WHEN he lived much less what he wore and the statue in England was
wearing quartered Lions & Flor De Le and that he should do his damned
research.  Needless to say, we didn't get any awards.

Many times it goes to the workmanship judge first, and since often the
workmanship judge is still judging when the show starts, it never gets to
the presentation judges. We tried to solve the problem at NoLaCon with two
sets of documentation. Never mind the workmanship judge had no clue about
what doc. was for and why you use it - she "knew what she liked" and that
was that.

We've done four re-creations: The first was the only one there was a
problem with - it was a matter of interpretation. We did a comic book
re-creation. The characters had black bodysuits with tabard-like panels
over them, and some white fluffy stuff on the sleeves. We used braided
loopy chenille. We won no award, the judge said "it should have been silk
ruffles". How can you tell, from two panels in a comic book? We also
apparently didn't have the exact shape of the appliques - all 3 of
them. Oh, well.

The others all won awards, and only the last one - the Star Trek original
series one I did at Conucopia, was glitzy. The other two were cover
paintings - and yes, we were obsessive to get just the right details.

We're doing another one again real soon now.

Sandy

P.S. Elaine, Ricky's CW historical was at CC 6.

>In general, I've noticed a problem with getting documentation to judges
>for these types of costumes--it is handed in to the Masq. registration
>desk along with the tape, and then what happens to it? Figuring that in
>any given masq. there are probably no more than a few recreations, why
>has this traditionally been such a problem ?

I was judge at a Dr Who Convention. The Doctor, Tom Baker, was
one of the judges, of course. So we had him pick out the Best
Doctor and we went and judged the rest of the costumes. Hey, it
gave the kid with frizzy hair and scarf a thrill to have Tom pick
him out and it actually made sense.

Lisa

P.S. Astrid Anderson Bear also makes a good judge, even if she
isn't as famous as her father or husband.

Dear Pierre and Sandy:

>Well, as long as we're naming names:
>Poul Anderson (married to one costumer, father of another)
>Greg Bear (husband of above named daughter)
>Larry Niven
>Barbara Hambly
>Robert Sawyer
>David Cherry
>Kelly Freas
>Laura Brodian Freas
>Michael Whelan
>Don Maitz
>Janny Wurts

Add Bertie McAvoy to the list. And Vic Milan makes one great MC.

Peace
Alixandra
eddana@hotmail.com
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Regarding Elaine's comment about "getting recreation documentation to the
judges"

I would be happy to ask green room personnel or the MC to look into
making sure my documentation got to the rightt place, the only problem is
that these folks are often too busy in the green room to be able to run
out and see. HOWEVER, I would not be averse to having the MC read, after
my stage exit and the credits being announced--"This is a recreation
entry and there is documentation" as a reminder to the judges, judge's
clerk, etc. I don't think that little announcement would be considered
disruptive. It probably does legitimately fall to the judge's clerk to
see that it gets to the judges panel.

The other problem, is that if you keep your documentation to show to the
workmanship judge, tehre is no guarantee that it will get to the
presentation judge panel.

Yours in costuming, Lisa A.
________________________________________________________________
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As there seems to be a lot of comment on this area, and by a strange chance I
was hoping to get some information together for a possible article covering
some of the aspects of competing in a masquerade.

May I quote any of you?

Have any of you been asked to judge a masquerade?
and what do you look for (or want the judges to look for) when judging?

Just how complex do these entry forms get?
Is this because they ask more specific questions?
Do the cons issue guidelines as to what documentation should be provided?

Please give me some examples, and how helpful you find that cons approach.

Many thanks,

Marion B

...on Sunday evenings, we can watch the Hornblower telemovies but this
afternoon there is a movie (Three For All) made in 1974 in which Robert Linday
(Capt Pellew) plays the dummy drummer with something close to a mullet of a pop
group.
Help!
-C.


-----------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP @ Netspace http://www.netspace.net.au/

Sometimes I wish they would Read The Book! I did a Lessa of
Ruatha from the original Dragonrider story. You know the slightly
too big green dress she puts on after her bath and her hair is
flying all over from static electricity (yes, I even got my waist
long hair to fly out). Well, no one in the judging group had read
the Hugo Award Winning Story!!! And several of them were long
time SF&F writers and this was at a WesterCon! *shesh*

Well, the people who had read the story loved the costume. I
suppose that counts for something.

Lisa


Jeff & Susan Stringer wrote:

> > I heard
> > later through the grapevine (another one of the judges) that
> one of the
> > judges thought it "Wasn't glitzy enough" to win anything.
>
> That's the thing that happened to Marty Gere (forgive my
> misspelling
> his last name). He and his group did the King, Queen and faries
> from Disney's
> Sleeping Beauty and tracked down ECAXTLY the right colors for
> each costume,
> as well as duplicating all correct details, only to hear later
> that the
> primary reason for not winning was, "Not glitzy enough". Here's
> a suggestion
> on choosing future judges: Pick someone who watches a movie
> once in a
> while...! Yeesh.

Lasted updated: 10/15/2000

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Last update 11/13/2000 (minor edits)

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> May I quote any of you?

Yes, it seems that everyone quotes me with or with out permission, mostly out of
context. *Winks to folks who know*

I'd like to quote the views of others onto my Charlotte 2004 Masquerade page as
"Helpful hints to Newbies - How to Win a Masquerade."

As I have seen it, from the point of view as Contestant, Judge & Masque Mistress,
the fallowing tend to hold true:

#1 Be original. This doesn't mean that you can't do Recreation, just don't do
the same old costume clique's that have been done to death. Avoid Star Trek,
Star Wars, Dr. Who, Snow Qeens, Peacock Ladies, Wizards, SCA garb, etc. If you
feel the need to do these, you better have the Biggest, Best, Fanciest, Knock 'em
on thier Butts version of the costume or a really good twist to the presentation
to make you stand out of the crowd.

#2 Play to the Audience. If you can get the audience excited, the judges tend to
score higher. The audience is there to be impressed and entertained. You need
to have some element to your costume or presentation that will make the audience
FEEL something. The costume must be visually impressive or the presentation must
be compelling and interesting.

#2A Humor is Easier than Drama. This is the origin of the "Funny Wins"
mentality. Everyone leaves the Masquerade talking about the presentation that
made them laugh until they cried. Finding an amusing twist is always a good
thing, especially if you can tie it to current events, and most of us can think
of at least one joke. Dramatic presentations are by far the most difficult ones
to acheive, because you must first get the audience to "shift gears" mentally
from the standard fair of humorous presentations. However, many dramatic
presentations have won because they sparked an old, fond memory or wrinched the
guts of every person watching. Those presentations tend to leave lasting
impressions on people that they remember years after the event.

#3 Avoid book charactors. Select something that stands on its own visual merit
and does not depend on the documentation. The judges may overlook your docs and
the audience will never see it. Aside from JRRTolkien, it is difficult to find a
book that everyone has read. (Harry Potter may be reaching the recognition level
of Gandolf though.) If you loose the audience in obsurity, you've lost the
contest.

#4 Groups must be Consistant! Many of us overlook this very important element of
costuming, including myself. If one produces a group of costumes, they must
have some unifying visual thread. When standing together, they must all look
like they belong together, not like a group of unrelated costumes standing in
line back stage.

CRAP! I just clicked "Send" instead of "Save". Now everyone will know just how bad
my writing is without a spell checker & editing!

Let's see, I was talking about Consistency in Groups....

Costuming by committee is like designing a horse, it ends up looking like a camel.
When costuming as a group, one person should be the head designer and dictate
fabrics, materials & general look of all the costumes to achieve unity. All costumes
in the group need to be of the same or similar quality of workmanship, utilize
unifying design elements or materials.

#5 Presentation Counts! It doesn't matter in the slightest how magnificent your
costume is if you Shlep across the stage like a bum. Hold your head up and stay in
character as long as you are within the sight of the audience! Many "walk ons"
remain memorable just because of the sheer stage presence of the presenter. As noted
earlier, humor is normally easier to achieve than drama, but both work if the person
on stage can carry it off. If no one ever laughs at your jokes at a party, don't try
humor. If you are wearing a costume of a comic character, there is no way it will
work as a dramatic presentation.

#6 Music Helps! Careful selection of "mood music" can help a great deal. It helps
to get the audience in the right frame of mind for your presentation, much as it does
in the Movies or TV. One should try to avoid well known music unless it helps the
presentation instead of distracting the audience. Good sources for music are movie
sound tracks and instrumentals from classical CD's or contemporary "nature" tracks,
i.e. Native American drumming or "New Age" artists. These can be found in stores
like "Natural Wonders".

#7 Don't always expect to win! Sometimes, the most rewarding aspects of costuming
are NOT related to going home with a certificate. One must always take pride in a
job well done, even if no one else notices. Many times, costumes that just don't
"work" on stage can be the best hall costumes where people can get up close and
personal with the wearer. Make costumes that are important to YOU, the maker and
wearer, and you can find satisfaction simply in the construction or the good time you
had crossing the stage. When one becomes truly happy with themselves and their work,
it shows in stage presence. Sometimes, it's nice to be Surprised with an award for
something you didn't make to get an award. Conversely, there is NOTHING as
devastating as truly expecting to sweep the awards, and getting nothing.

Hugs,
Susan


I Ran the Spell checker this time, does it show? hahahaha

Hi there

>"Helpful hints to Newbies - How to Win a Masquerade."

I like this idea of a document on the web and I have done many panels at
both Arisia and Lunacon on how to create a presentation I do have some
additional ideas and comments.

>5 Presentation Counts!

I do agree with this. But one point that I would like to add that may help
and something I have done myself in the past is the following. When
creating a presentation, before you enter in a competition road test it in
front of a group of people that you feel can give you honest constructive
criticism. You will be able to learn where your presentation excels and
where in needs improvement. If possible, try to enlist the help of someone
to video tape the presentation and playing back for you to see. This way
you will see exactly what the audience is going to see and you can possible
deter any disasters. Even if you don't have the exact lighting or stage
layout you will at the very least get an idea of what you are showing on
stage.

> >If you are wearing a costume of a comic character, there is no way it

will

> work as a dramatic presentation.

I don't agree with this statement. Reason being is that it all depends on
what the comic book character is doing in the presentation. If you are
recreating a dramatic scene from a comic book or anime then it could work.
It depends on the presentor and the presentation. There are plenty of
dramatic scenes from comic books and anime out there I would not want to
discourage someone from trying . So have the MC help to set up the scene to
the audience by reading a short introduction so that the audience and the
judges know what they are about to see. You can also add an introduction to
the taped music for the presentation.This has saved many a presentation from
just falling flat. Remember to be succient in your introduction. If it
takes more than a few sentences then you may want to rethink your point
because it is taking to long to express.

> >Play to the Audience. If you can get the audience excited, the judges

tend

> to score higher.

And the reverse can be said as well to play for the judges or the MC. I
have seen great presentations where the costumer has inplicated or played
the judges into the presentation. ( CC17, How to give the Evil Eye by Carol
Salemi is one example.) at the end of the presentation she threw her 3rd eye
to the judges which I thought was a really nice effect. Also another item
to be aware of is to look at the costume and the presentation as a judge not
as yourself. I know someone who found out she was marked down on her
presentation at a CC 15 because from where the judges were sitting they
could see her street shoes and pants from the underside of the costume and
they marked her down for it. While creating the costume and running
throught the presentation it never passed our thoughts that we would be
elevated from the judges. (In case you are wondering which costume I am
refering to it is Sphinx, the Victory and this was fixed when it was
competed at Bucconner.)

>#3 Avoid book charactors.

I think this should be avoid doing an obscure scene. Whether it be a book,
movie, historical, etc. If the presentation does something that both the
audience and the judges can relate
to whether they have read the book or not. That is what should the presenter
should try to achieve. This is another example of how using your MC or taped
introduction will help to express the presentation. If you are going to do
a book character or a recreation then document it and make mutiple copies of
the documentation and seek out the judges clerk or MD to make sure that the
judges get the documentation. At Arisia when you fill out the forms for
registration there is that place to mark off that documentation is being
handed in and you are encourage to staple it to the form. I seem to
remember watching on video Andrian Butterfield's Elric presentation that was
in a word, BREATHTAKING! That presentation showed that YES you can do a
book character and do a spectacular presentation that if you did not know
that character the presentation was strong enought to hold its own..

>#6 Music Helps!
>One should try to avoid well known music unless it helps the presentation
> instead of distracting the audience.

Music in my opinion can either make or break a presentation Yet, you have to
also think of, if you are new to costuming then how are you going to know
that a piece of music has been played to death? I remember that my very
first presentation I used the Peter Gunn theme. I used that because the
beat worked and it was something that the audience would recognize.
Popular music can work and get the audience going and that can help to raise
the excitement of a presentation. Also another idea is that if you do wish
to use a popular piece of music try researching to see if another musician
has covered that piece so that it sounds different. It may work better in
the presentation. I found this out myself when I was researching the song
for my first dance at my wedding. Did you know that there are around 70
versions of "Can't Help Falling in Love with You" Startling! Who would that
thunk it.

I hope this helps your document, again this is only my opinion. I think
creating something like this is a great idea. But we don't want to trap a
new costumers energy and creativity we want to help them grow, not box them
in.
Stephanie Carrigg

Susan,

Like you said in the post following this one, "If no one laughs at your
jokes at parties, don't try humor". Exactly. Also, after judging the 1996
and 1998 Worldcon, especially '98, I can add: "Don't add a 'schtick' just
because you think it has to be funny to win". There were many really
excellent serious entries that to me, were ruined by the addition of a
gratuitous joke or pun. The most emphatic of these happened at a small
local con, however. A very large man had made a monster costume out of
that coarse-textured foam stuff that is used as the filter medium in
humidifiers (also like stipple sponge material, for those who are familiar
with that). It was really effective for the first costume attempt that it
was. He stalked around menacingly, and we were really impressed. Then he
grabbed the mike and tried to do stand-up comedy. What we could hear
wasn't funny, and since his face was completely covered and he couldn't
project, we couldn't hear the rest. He got nothing. This in an 8-entry
masquerade. He would have gotten a significant award if he had stopped
with the menacing effect.

Short and sweet, judges are getting tired of humor tossed in where it isn't
needed.

P & S

>#2A Humor is Easier than Drama. This is the origin of the "Funny Wins"
>mentality. Everyone leaves the Masquerade talking about the presentation that
>made them laugh until they cried. Finding an amusing twist is always a good
>thing, especially if you can tie it to current events, and most of us can
>think
>of at least one joke. Dramatic presentations are by far the most
>difficult ones
>to acheive, because you must first get the audience to "shift gears" mentally
>from the standard fair of humorous presentations. However, many dramatic
>presentations have won because they sparked an old, fond memory or
>wrinched the
>guts of every person watching. Those presentations tend to leave lasting
>impressions on people that they remember years after the event.

Just found this in the trash...

>
> > 10. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.
> >
> > Thank you for your co-operation.

I know who killed JR!

I did come up with a new ditty for Christmas though,

"All I want for Christmas is a president elect, a president elect, yes a
president elect."

Hugs,
Susan

I liked Jeff and Susan's answer very much. I have competed in numerous
Masqerades, on every level and at all venues from tiny cons to Worldcons.
I have also sat on judges panels.

I think her advice about "playing to the audience" is extremely well
said. When I design a costume, esp. one for a CC or a Worldcon, I am
thinking about how it will play to the back of the house, as well as how
the textures will work under the lights, what can I do with makeup to
enhance the persona, etc. And please don't forget, timing is everything,
whether the presentation is dramatic or funny or whimsical. I try to
offer some sort of "universality" or "iconic" quality with every costume
I create. OBviously, doing the goddess Isis or Merlin and Morgaine,
that would seem easier. But even with funny or wistful costumes, it can
and should be done. If you can strike a chord with some universal
emotion, you've got 'em.

If you find that staging is your weakest point, do what I do--get someone
who knows what they're doing to help you choreograph. Usually if you're
in a group presentation, one person in the group has some idea of what
they want to do. If you're by yourself, think through your friends and
what they do. Does one of them know martial arts movements? do ballet
or jazz? does someone have an interest in theater? sing in public? was
ever in a rock band? I"ve used folks with all these attributes to design
presentations, that have won.

Rehearse to the point that you can do it in your sleep, if need be. I
make a spare tape and play it in the car going to and from work, and
rehearse in my head.

Yours in costuming, Lisa A.
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My first "recreation" costume was taken from a written description of a
female character in a gorgeous ball gown in one of the Darkover books. I
was pretty naive, and thought if I just provided a photocopy of the
appropriate pages to the judges, it would be quite clear that the costume
was perfect to the written description.

Well, it didn't help. And this was a Darkover con, and no one seemed to
know what story I was talking about in one of the Darkover books. I even
used that paragraph as my intro by the MC....so there you have it.

Yours in costuming, Lisa A.
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Well, here's the thing about that. First off, the costume hadn't been
"created" in the first place, except on the written page. Secondly, you can
have 12 people read the same passage from a novel and what you get is 12
different and distinct interpretations of it.
A true re-creation stems frm a visual source. Wheather it's a book cover or
a film. No matter how discriptive the passage may be, a visual aid is always
best. But sometimes, so matter how much info you give them, they just wont
get it. Just one of the many obstacles re-creation costumers (considered by
many purists to be the bastard children of the art) have to face.
Jeff S.

lisa58@juno.com wrote:

> My first "recreation" costume was taken from a written description of a
> female character in a gorgeous ball gown in one of the Darkover books. I
> was pretty naive, and thought if I just provided a photocopy of the
> appropriate pages to the judges, it would be quite clear that the costume
> was perfect to the written description.
>
> Well, it didn't help. And this was a Darkover con, and no one seemed to
> know what story I was talking about in one of the Darkover books. I even
> used that paragraph as my intro by the MC....so there you have it.
>
> Yours in costuming, Lisa A.
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ICG-D-unsubscribe@egroups.com

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It's strange, but if you think about it, recreation costuming, is, or
should be, the natural outgrowth of science fiction literature and art
(i.e. book covers). It's surprising that it's never "gotten the respect
it deserves" or really caught on in a big way, except at a few of the
comic cons. Most cons that have any significant amount of costume
programming will devote one panel to it.

These days when I do any sort of recreation, I have to personally really
WANT to do the work, because I know from the start that it is unlikely to
achieve significant recognition from a stage point of view. Which
doesn't mean that people don't like it. I've found that a really
evocative presentation, as with Merlin and Morgaine (a "sort-of"
recreation based on the characters in "The Mists of Avalon"), definitely
transcends whether people know the characters or not. Funny thing about
that one, though. I did that after the Isis group--very glitzy and
beady, red laser lights on a 9 foot pyramid--because I always wanted to
do it and I was tired of sparkly bits for a while. I took it to a
Midwest con where it bombed--I hadn't realized it was a media con and
people really didn't want to have to think about what was going on in the
presentation. But it didn't even win for workmanship, despite the fact
that we hunted and tanned our own deerskins, I designed and patterned
everything, and hand-dyed all the trim, even airbrushed Merlin's hair and
wig for authenticity. So I reworked the presentation a bit, and brought
it to Philcon a few years ago, where it won BIS. At the end of the
presentation, when Merlin is sort of creeping offstage, and Morgaine
magically lights up the leafy "wand" and then pauses, there was initially
no applause--just a sort of collective indrawing of breath. Then the
lights faded, and THEN there was applause. At that point I understood
the power of a dramatic presentation. We had achieved a true "moment" of
connection with our audience. Now I always try to go for that.

The problem with recreating book covers is making something static into
something dynamic. With movie characters this is less of an issue, you
can study how they move and either imitate it or consciously change it.

Well, see you all at Arisia--I'm in a group and we have something new.
I'm very excited about it.

Yours in costuming, Lisa A.
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Lisa,

So far, no takers. If you're still interested, I'll sell it for last year's
price, but I get to vote site selection. (I hope it would not matter to
your Mom where a CC will be held 4 years from now). Let me know.

Have great holidays,

Elaine

>From: lisa58@juno.com
>Reply-To: ICG-D@egroups.com
>To: ICG-D@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [ICG-D] CC-19
>Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:23:25 -0500
>
>Dear Elaine--
>
>I might be interested in buying your membership for my mom to come with
>me. Of course she's hedging, and says she has to "Think about it". I
>fyou have a chance to sell it to someone right off, don't give it another
>thought. But if you find in a week or so, no takers, yet, let me know.
>I'd really like to bring her, and show her what it's like...
>
>Yours in costuming, lisa a.
>________________________________________________________________
>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
>Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

> I took it to a Midwest con where it bombed--I hadn't realized it was a

media con and people really didn't want to have to think about what was
going on in the presentation. <

Know your venue. This also goes for understanding the difference between
Costume Con and the Science Fiction conventions. Obviously, CostumeCon
will be more likely to appreciate workmanship and research. The
sophisticated audience will appreciate detail and design more, while a
Science Fiction audience is more likely to respond to over all effect.
Some conventions have a special "culture". When Bruce and I judged at
Archon this year, we quickly realized that they tend to do skits
there. Some things they put on stage there would have not been considered
appropriate in other venues, but were part of the Archon customs.
Also, remember the scale of the house and the stage. A big stage needs
big details and big movement.
The question about using a costume described in a book brings up a couple
of points. I did a group of costumes from a book with very mixed
results, and will probably not try that again. I learn. Not only are you
fighting the imagination of anyone who read and remembers the book, but the
costumes are not necessarily designed for stage at all. Nothing is
potentially more detailed and intimate than a costume that is designed for
the written page, and it may not look theatrical no matter how accurate it
is. So, if there is a costume from a book that you really want to do,
evaluate it carefully. It might be best as a Hall costume, up close and
with explanation.
For any competition piece, it is best if it can stand alone without
descriptions or explanations. It is quite probable that at least part of
the audience will not be able to hear the narration, anyhow. So those
words should be supportive of your entry, but not essential to it. And the
more important the narration is, the simpler it had better be.
When I judge, I always ask if there are any recreations and whether there
was any documentation. We do not go to as many movies as some people do,
and I know nothing about Anime, but documentation makes a real
difference. At Archon, the documentation for one of the really excellent
costumes was not presented to us at the judging, until I asked if there was
any for that group, since it felt like a recreation. Once it was
produced, it explained both the costumes and the presentation. Somehow, I
had never actually seen Mary Poppins. It can happen.
Dana

I realize that this stuff is old, but I just got to it.

It's not just grammar check programs. In a vain attempt to teach
executives how to write, people have developed systems that say:

1. No passive voice.

2. Short sentences -- no more than 24 words.

3. Short paragraphs -- no more than 12 lines.

The grammar checkers use some of these rules. They don't seem
to look at run-on paragraphs.

I've been involved in trying to teach "professionals" how to write
with greater clarity. I've used the "rules" because, for general
administrative correspondence, they do help. However, any kind
of specialized material causes havoc. For example, try embedding
statutory citations in a sentence and watch what happens to its
length.

Obviously, the "rules" are inappropriate for fiction. You always
can turn spell check off.

BTW, when I was teaching writing to professionals, one of my
favorite exercises was to ask them to try writing a paragraph using
no form of the verb, "to be." That sure makes you pay attention!

Byron

>>> eddana@hotmail.com 11/23/00 04:18PM >>>

Dear Pierre:

Another annoying

>feature is the "grammar checker." The one on Word, for instance, absolutely
>hates the passive voice, doesn't recognize implied subjects, and apparently
>

Not a sixth grader; an average executive. My sister, in Scarborough, is
an admin support; before that, she was doing word processing. I spent ages
listening to her horror stories; until she finally put in for the transfer
to admin support. Among secretaries/amin support it is common knowledge
that most exceutives cannot compose a short sentence; never mind a memo that
says what it should. It is also working on the "Laugh-in" principle.
"Laugh-in" was put together much like masquerade presentations: people get
bored after more than two minutes; so none of the "Laugh-in" sketches were
more than two minutes in length; just as the best presentations are two
minutes, or less. In grammer, many people consider a sentence to be seven
words; after that you've lost your audience. This I get from a very
interesting lecture by Suzette Haden Elgen; back in 1985, at Archon. This
explains all those books with the subject-predicate, no adjectives, no
clauses, not semi-colons, Dick and Jane type novels that are out there. An
interesting thing is that, apparently, Ernest Hemingway wrote very
decriptive prose; which his editor then chopped into little pieces.
So, I am trying to write novels, on a computer that will only accept
windows programs; using Word '98, or some such thing; and I spend more time
ignoreing the grammer checks than I do trying to use the spell check. I
really do wish that I was back on the old word processing DOS program, with
the large dictionary (it even recognized "Tardis" and "Dalek".) with
Canadian spellings. sigh.

Hmmmmmmm, Dr. Suess is responsible for getting the "Dick and Jane" books
thrown out of the school system; too bad he couldn't have tried his hand at
a word processing program, aimed at novelists.

Peace
Alixandra

Dear Elaine--

My mom is fudging, as usual, but I really want her to go. Be back to you
soon, I hope.

Yours in costuming, Lisa A.
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I have a large-file electronic copy. I use it for the ICG letterhead. I
think I sent it to JohnO a couple of years ago, too.

Byron

>>> Stringer@cdc.net 11/25/00 06:08PM >>>

Ok, next question, is there a copy of this art work on the web somewhere? Could it be
used as a webpage link to the ICG's official web site???

Hugs,
Susan

If you become Charlotte's MD, everyone will yell at you anyway.

Byron

>>> Stringer@cdc.net 11/28/00 07:36AM >>>
>

GREAT! That means if I end up Masque Mistress at Charlotte 2004, and pick the
unpopular response, everyone gets to yell at me. Thanks a bunch :-( But I happen
to agree with Bruce, more costumes make for better shows and increases the quality
of competition. Besides, we spend a Ton o' Money on these things, I think they
deserve to be seen more than once.

Ooops, time to get ready for work!

Hugs,
Susan

Byron Connell wrote:

> If you become Charlotte's MD, everyone will yell at you anyway.
>
> Byron

ROTFLMAO!!!! Duh!!! Look at what happend to poor Drew Sanders after Nolacon, and half
the crap that went wrong wasn't even his fault, but someone had to be the scape goat.

Hugs,
Susan

In a message dated 12/03/2000 1:24:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Stringer@cdc.net writes:

> A true re-creation stems frm a visual source. Wheather it's a book cover
> or
> a film. No matter how discriptive the passage may be, a visual aid is

always

> best. But sometimes, so matter how much info you give them, they just wont
> get it. Just one of the many obstacles re-creation costumers (considered by
> many purists to be the bastard children of the art) have to face.
> Jeff S.
>

When in certain ways, recreation is technically a more difficult artform.
(Witness anyone who has tried to do a recreation of an Erte Print, most
bodies arent shaped like that.) I actually give more kudos to an extremely
well done recreation than an equally well done freeform costume, as the
former is working under a very rigid set of parameters,whereas the latter has
no such restrictions.
John Syms

Hi, all!

Slightly off topic, did anyone tape the Dune mini-series that began on
Sunday night? We missed part 1 because our cable decided that was the time
to stop working. It was fixed by Monday night. We'd appreciate getting a
copy, if possible.

Back on topic, what we saw of the costumes on the other two nights (haven't
watched all of it) were interesting.

TIA,

P & S

We taped it. In spite of knowing that it will be on the shelf at Blockbuster
soon enough. Send us yer mailing addy and a blank and I'll get right on it. :)
Jeff S.

Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote:

> Hi, all!
>
> Slightly off topic, did anyone tape the Dune mini-series that began on
> Sunday night? We missed part 1 because our cable decided that was the time
> to stop working. It was fixed by Monday night. We'd appreciate getting a
> copy, if possible.
>
> Back on topic, what we saw of the costumes on the other two nights (haven't
> watched all of it) were interesting.
>
> TIA,
>
> P & S
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ICG-D-unsubscribe@egroups.com

As I said before, we've done a couple of these - most from print rather
than film. One of the biggest challenges is to guess the fabric (fiber,
weight, drape, etc.) from a non-moving two-dimensional source. Also, what
do the parts you can't see look like? There have been at least 4 Whelan's
"Summer Queen" versions I've seen at major cons (including mine) and all
had a different take on the dress. If you don't know the painting, all
that's visible is head and shoulders, and a small part of one sleeve. The
shoulders are covered by a cape. No clues as to what the dress looks
like. Granted, the headdress is the challenge (flowers don't EXIST in
those shapes!!), but....

Also, most of the time the articles aren't in proportion - if you measure
one part and scale it up, then another part doesn't fit when made to the
same scale. And complex 3-d shapes are not intuitive to translate to flat
patterns. I agree - re-creations are more difficult, because if it's your
original design, and something doesn't work, you can CHANGE THE DESIGN.

P & S

>When in certain ways, recreation is technically a more difficult artform.
>(Witness anyone who has tried to do a recreation of an Erte Print, most
>bodies arent shaped like that.) I actually give more kudos to an extremely
>well done recreation than an equally well done freeform costume, as the
>former is working under a very rigid set of parameters,whereas the latter has
>no such restrictions.
> John Syms

Michael Whelan paintings are a dream to work from, compared with some
artists -- he paints his human characters in proportion with real human
beings! Also, he knows that clothes have to have seams.

When I did the recreation of "Judith" by James Christensen (CC13), I
quickly discovered that the painted figure had impossibly long arms, and
what appeared to be two elbows on one of them! There are 9
"elements" or layers of different technique on one sleeve, and 11 on the
other, and she has them pushed up her forearms; I'd either have to
crush them horribly, or wear them to my wrists (which is what I
did).

When Eileen Capes and I did the Whelan Queens (ConAdian), Eileen did the
masks (although I did make some of the impossible flowers :)) and I was
left with the fun part of inventing everything below the shoulders.

I agree that recreation is a more exacting form of our art; my problem
doing "originals" is figuring out when to stop fiddling and say, "Done!"

Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote:

> Also, what
> do the parts you can't see look like? There have been at least 4 Whelan's
> "Summer Queen" versions I've seen at major cons (including mine) and all
> had a different take on the dress. If you don't know the painting, all
> that's visible is head and shoulders, and a small part of one sleeve. The
> shoulders are covered by a cape. No clues as to what the dress looks
> like. Granted, the headdress is the challenge (flowers don't EXIST in
> those shapes!!), but....
>
> Also, most of the time the articles aren't in proportion - if you measure
> one part and scale it up, then another part doesn't fit when made to the
> same scale.

Assuming that we can all work on getting the documentation to the judges,
I always write up notes explaining why I used a certain fabric, texture,
etc.

The point about costuming from a book cover is right on. When I did
"Hawkmistress" from the Darkover series, the cover is a close upof her
from the waist up. It was an interesting coincidence that I happened to
know the artist (from before she did the cover), and she made some
colored-pencil sketches for me of details (the exact plaid of the cape,
the trim on the tunic), and what the trousers and boots would look like,
etc. I put those sketches in my documentation (having followed them
pretty closely). I even included the artist's "signature" design on the
cape where it showed in the picture. If you get a knowledgaeable
workmanship judge, they do enjoy things like that.

Obviously with a recreation, if you can't see the bottom, or the back, or
the hairstyle under a hood, for example, that's where your judgment and
knowledge of the character in the book comes in. As with a historical,
as long as you can justify your creative decisions, it should all work
harmoniously.

Recreations are blasted difficult to get right, most of the time.

Yours in costuming, Lisa A.




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In a message dated 12/6/00 7:56:08 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
kathnbiz@telusplanet.net writes:

> Michael Whelan paintings are a dream to work from, compared with some
> artists -- he paints his human characters in proportion with real human
> beings! Also, he knows that clothes have to have seams.

Assuming he's painting humans that is.

I received an e-mail last year asking me to reproduce an elven magician from
one of his paintings. Since the character is obviously in the middle of
casting a powerful spell, his clothes are lofted every which-way and of
course the figure is impossibly thin.

That's one of the incidents that convinced me to stop doing custom work.
Unrealistic expectations on the part of clients had gotten out of hand. I
turned down the commission, but stopped short of pointing out that the
requestor had violated copyright by e-mailing me a scan of the painting.

Randall

I should hope not! [Groan] You should be ashamed of yourself.

Byron

>>> randwhit@aol.com 11/29/00 10:39PM >>>

I've had an idea about costuming as The Doctor's yodeling grandmother.

"Little Old Lady Who"

I'll probably never do it.

Randall

I dunno, but it is. Generally, the problem is making sure the
documentation handed to masquerade registration gets to the
judges' clerk. Often, the registration staff don't know who the
judges' clerk will be. Sometimes, the MD hasn't designated one in
advance.

That said, the problem is larger than it seems. At least once, I had
a problem getting documentation from the registration table to the
judges' clerk when I was the registration table and I was the
judges' clerk!

So there.

Byron

>>> lisa58@juno.com 11/30/00 03:45PM >>>

REgarding Pierre and Sandy's comment about documentation "never having
gotten to the judges"

In general, I've noticed a problem with getting documentation to judges
for these types of costumes--it is handed in to the Masq. registration
desk along with the tape, and then what happens to it? Figuring that in
any given masq. there are probably no more than a few recreations, why
has this traditionally been such a problem ?

Yours in costuming, Lisa A.

Guilty, at least once.

Byron

>>> lisa58@juno.com 11/30/00 03:32PM >>>

you can count on
having a judge that hasn't ever seen any particular movie.

Yours in costuming, Lisa A.

If you <have> to use one of the con's GoH's, and none of them
are know to be good as judges, pick the Art GoH (if there is one).
At least, the Art GoH will have some appreciation of line and color.

Byron


PS: I'm going to try to start keeping a list of all these names for future reference for MD's who are forced by the concom to use one of the guest as a judge. At least they'll have a chance at picking a good one.

On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Byron Connell wrote:

> If you <have> to use one of the con's GoH's, and none of them
> are know to be good as judges, pick the Art GoH (if there is one).
> At least, the Art GoH will have some appreciation of line and color.
>

When I judged the Arisia '00 Masquerade as FGoH, that was my first time
judging (I suppose there always has to be a _first_ time. :-)

I paid attention to what the more experienced judges pointed out, but was
also willing to express my own opinion. I don't think I did too badly. ;-)

If the FGoH has been to a number of conventions (and masquerades) at least
he/she will have appreciation from an audience PoV (but with a much closer
seat this time!)

> Byron
>
>
> PS: I'm going to try to start keeping a list of all these names for
> future reference for MD's who are forced by the concom to use one of the
> guest as a judge. At least they'll have a chance at picking a good one.
>

Alternatively (if you don't want to worry about the "forced" GoH working
with the other judges) have a "Guest of Honor Choice" award. It simplifies
matters a lot. Art Shows typically do this.

Sharon